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Ted Cruz

7 (6.5%)

Rick Santorum

16 (14.8%)

Michelle Bachmann

13 (12%)

Chris Christie

23 (21.3%)

Rand Paul

49 (45.4%)

Total Members Voted: 107

[Sheb]

Wel, you need regulations against off shoring, or else how do you prevent the Irish branch of Megacorp fracturing its. US branch 5 bazillions dollars for IP?

Also another problem is the stigma against subsidies in the US. People don't like it, so the politicos gives tax break instead of direct subsidies, making everything harder. (Apply to welfare too BTW.)

[10ebbor10]

Maybe you could try dropping corporate tax entirely, and making up the loss by gaining money from sources that aren't as easily outsourced. (Sales tax, workforce taxes, divident and share tax)?

[Nadaka]

Maybe you could try dropping corporate tax entirely, and making up the loss by gaining money from sources that aren't as easily outsourced. (Sales tax, workforce taxes, divident and share tax)?

Sales taxes are extremely regressive and hurt the poorest people the most.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Also another problem is the stigma against subsidies in the US. People don't like it, so the politicos gives tax break instead of direct subsidies, making everything harder.

There isn't a stigma against subsidies in the US, the debate is over what gets subsidized. The Republican Party is all for subsidies of fossil fuels, gasoline, and agribusiness.

[misko27]

Sales tax, please no. It raises the price of living.


Plus, I really don't think there is a "simple" solution to the tax code. This is a complex country, with a vast and complicated economy. Things will get complicated.

Also another problem is the stigma against subsidies in the US. People don't like it, so the politicos gives tax break instead of direct subsidies, making everything harder.

There isn't a stigma against subsidies in the US, the debate is over what gets subsidized. The Republican Party is all for subsidies of fossil fuels, gasoline, and agribusiness.

An excellent point. Both parties have argued for subsidies for one thing or another, it's just what that ties people up. People then tend to associate the subsidies with the thing they do not support(hence all the fire over Planned Parenthood. They can't ban the organization, but the government support can be eliminated.) and want to get rid of them.

[10ebbor10]

Sales tax, please no. It raises the price of living.

One would assume that compagnies would reduce their profit margins considering the elimination of corporation taxes, but well, doubt they'll be nice enough to do so.

[Nadaka]

Sales tax, please no. It raises the price of living.

One would assume that compagnies would reduce their profit margins considering the elimination of corporation taxes, but well, doubt they'll be nice enough to do so.

Are you kidding me? This "jobless" recovery has been all about the massively inflated profit margins of corporations being willing to screw over their employees and customers to inflate their profit margin.

[10ebbor10]

Sales tax, please no. It raises the price of living.

One would assume that compagnies would reduce their profit margins considering the elimination of corporation taxes, but well, doubt they'll be nice enough to do so.

Are you kidding me? This "jobless" recovery has been all about the massively inflated profit margins of corporations being willing to screw over their employees and customers to inflate their profit margin.

Point is that this would be accompagnied by an increased tax on dividents and stuff. (Basically, all the ways money can leave the compagny).

So rather than taxing money inside the compagny, you tax money going in, and money going out. This means that they'll always have money to invest, I suppose.

Note: Not my actual vision. I know nothinglittle of economics, as should be clear

[palsch]

So rather than taxing money inside the compagny, you tax money going in, and money going out. This means that they'll always have money to invest, I suppose.

Eh, that is kinda how corporation taxes work anyway.

The basic structure of American corporation tax is the same as for individual income tax. That is, they tax a percentage of gross income less valid deductions. A corporation that shows zero gross income would pay zero taxes.

All three forms of tax you propose are worse than this for fairly simple reasons;

Sales tax
As others have pointed out these are regressive. The simple reason behind this is that poorer people have to spend a higher percentage of their income on goods where the sales tax (or VAT, or whatever) will be applied. If there is a 20% sales tax applied to all goods I buy and I spend 50% of my income (post-tax) on such goods I've just spent 10% of my income on an additional tax, after whatever income and payroll taxes I've already had to pay. If someone makes enough money that they can live comfortably only spending 10% of their income then the same sales tax only takes another 2% of their income.

Workforce tax
Very simply this discourages companies from spending money on their workers, depressing already stagnant wages further still. Of the areas where we want to encourage companies to spend their money, I think most people would agree that workers are high in the list. If anything the tax code should encourage better pay and benefits for workers (as with tax deductions for healthcare payments and similar).

Dividend and share tax
This is more arguable, but generally speaking you want to encourage (responsible) investment and savings which applying any tax penalty in this area is tricky and often a poor idea. There are areas of the stock market and financial industry that are toxic and where taxes would be sensible (making short term investments less attractive than long term for example), but punishing long-term investments and savings is a bad idea. On a more short-term, local issue, discouraging investment in companies is going to be a more savage punishment than simply applying a minor tax increase directly on a corporate level, especially for smaller and start-up companies.

[Scoops Novel]

From what you can discern, do most people care (enough) to push for change in the current economic system? What's their tolerance level? If the recession drags on, or there's another one within a comparatively recent period for similar reasons, what do you expect will happen? To be honest, I'm trying to understand what the nebulous average American thinks of the current state of affairs, and with what i have i can't be much more then vague and negative.

[SalmonGod]

From what you can discern, do most people care (enough) to push for change in the current economic system? What's their tolerance level? If the recession drags on, or there's another one within a comparatively recent period for similar reasons, what do you expect will happen? To be honest, I'm trying to understand what the nebulous average American thinks of the current state of affairs, and with what i have i can't be much more then vague and negative.

Average American is incredibly pissed off, but not informed enough to sensibly direct their anger.  Those that are understand that a leviathan military police state has been constructed mainly for the purpose of preventing them from doing so.

[bulborbish]

From what you can discern, do most people care (enough) to push for change in the current economic system? What's their tolerance level? If the recession drags on, or there's another one within a comparatively recent period for similar reasons, what do you expect will happen? To be honest, I'm trying to understand what the nebulous average American thinks of the current state of affairs, and with what i have i can't be much more then vague and negative.

Average American is incredibly pissed off, but not informed enough to sensibly direct their anger.  Those that are understand that a leviathan military police state has been constructed mainly for the purpose of preventing them from doing so.

To add on, a significant portion of the population think that any failures come across due to any form of Government control and regulation, thus furthering the spiral where any change that is not moving towards a Rand-ian economy, while asking for the benefits of a system contrary to this.

[SalmonGod]

From what you can discern, do most people care (enough) to push for change in the current economic system? What's their tolerance level? If the recession drags on, or there's another one within a comparatively recent period for similar reasons, what do you expect will happen? To be honest, I'm trying to understand what the nebulous average American thinks of the current state of affairs, and with what i have i can't be much more then vague and negative.

Average American is incredibly pissed off, but not informed enough to sensibly direct their anger.  Those that are understand that a leviathan military police state has been constructed mainly for the purpose of preventing them from doing so.

To add on, a significant portion of the population think that any failures come across due to any form of Government control and regulation, thus furthering the spiral where any change that is not moving towards a Rand-ian economy, while asking for the benefits of a system contrary to this.

Yeah... libertarianism is definitely a reaction to the abuse of state power by the wealthy elite, especially expansion of the police state and profiteering trends in the justice system.  Pretty convenient for the rich, as most libertarians I've talked to harbor little resentment towards them for usurping the government.  It's all directed at the government for being usurped.  So they can do whatever they want and government gets all the hate for it.  Then as government weakens as a result, they can still do whatever they want.

[Sheb]

Actually, farms and oil subsidies mostly take the form of tax deduction (for prospecting, or the depreciation tax rebate on equipment). Taxes should be about generating government revenues and giving broad directions to the economy (by lowering taxes on labor and making it up with other kind of taxes for example). Taxes shouldn't be about subsidizing specific things.

[misko27]

From what you can discern, do most people care (enough) to push for change in the current economic system? What's their tolerance level? If the recession drags on, or there's another one within a comparatively recent period for similar reasons, what do you expect will happen? To be honest, I'm trying to understand what the nebulous average American thinks of the current state of affairs, and with what i have i can't be much more then vague and negative.

Average American is incredibly pissed off, but not informed enough to sensibly direct their anger.  Those that are understand that a leviathan military police state has been constructed mainly for the purpose of preventing them from doing so.

To add on, a significant portion of the population think that any failures come across due to any form of Government control and regulation, thus furthering the spiral where any change that is not moving towards a Rand-ian economy, while asking for the benefits of a system contrary to this.

Yeah... libertarianism is definitely a reaction to the abuse of state power by the wealthy elite, especially expansion of the police state and profiteering trends in the justice system.  Pretty convenient for the rich, as most libertarians I've talked to harbor little resentment towards them for usurping the government.  It's all directed at the government for being usurped.  So they can do whatever they want and government gets all the hate for it.  Then as government weakens as a result, they can still do whatever they want.

This is one of my reasons for deep abiding hate for libertarians.


Government oversight is the worst of all worlds till you look at the alternatives.

Actually, farms and oil subsidies mostly take the form of tax deduction (for prospecting, or the depreciation tax rebate on equipment). Taxes should be about generating government revenues and giving broad directions to the economy (by lowering taxes on labor and making it up with other kind of taxes for example). Taxes shouldn't be about subsidizing specific things.

Those do have their purpose though. Clean energy has had several leg-ups (although not nearly enough).