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Ted Cruz

7 (6.5%)

Rick Santorum

16 (14.8%)

Michelle Bachmann

13 (12%)

Chris Christie

23 (21.3%)

Rand Paul

49 (45.4%)

Total Members Voted: 107

[scriver]

Open carry activist charged with double murder.

This seems sorta like bringing up peoples game/music habits after a shooting to me. Yeah, I'd agree that political leanings could be said to be more relevant than entertainment, but still.

[smeeprocket]

Open carry activist charged with double murder.

This seems sorta like bringing up peoples game/music habits after a shooting to me. Yeah, I'd agree that political leanings could be said to be more relevant than entertainment, but still.

yea except that video games and music don't involve an actual weapon of violence and people insisting that anyone and everyone has a right to walk around publically terrorizing other people with them.

It is kind of related that said people will use those guns to murder others.

[nenjin]

If the people advocating the freedom to carry and protect yourself also provide an example where freedom gets used for horrendous things, I think it's ok to point that out.

[Bauglir]

Examples of people behaving in ways that undermine their ideology can be pretty relevant. It might not actually say anything directly about the idea, but examples of hypocrisy can often demonstrate that large slices of the movement aren't being entirely honest with themselves. It's kind of like Ayn Rand getting welfare checks - yeah, it doesn't exactly prove that Objectivism is inherently flawed, but it does kind of suggest there might be something a little off with the culture.

[Reelya]

That last bit is often ignored, but very much true - one of the reasons I'm still around is that I was too scared to jump off a bridge. Had I had a gun, the result might have been very different.

That's backed up by the Israeli experience. Not letting soldiers take guns home on weekends led to a 40% drop in the total suicide rate for the country. not just suicides of soldiers, or suicides on weekends: removing those weekend guns almost halved the entire national rate. So depressed soldiers didn't just switch to hanging, pills, or something without an easy way to off themselves, they had time for second thoughts and a lot of them are still alive as a result.

[Erils]

That last bit is often ignored, but very much true - one of the reasons I'm still around is that I was too scared to jump off a bridge. Had I had a gun, the result might have been very different.

That's backed up by the Israeli experience. Not letting soldiers take guns home on weekends led to a 40% drop in the total suicide rate for the country. not just suicides of soldiers, or suicides on weekends: removing those weekend guns almost halved the entire national rate.

While I completely believe that the presence of guns has a huge effect on murder and suicide rates (and that statistic's pretty impressive) I think culture might also have something to do with it, even if its small.

While living in Cyprus, there was rarely a story in the news about a murder or suicide. I can't even remember any off of the top of my head (though I could probably go find some but eh...) Yet, almost every Cypriot male owned a gun as military service was mandatory and Cypriots got to keep their weapons after they finished their time. I even tried to look into this a bit, and found that Cyprus had the lowest suicide rate for any EU country in 2008 and only 19 murder cases in 2009.

Maybe the fact that almost all Cypriots seem to love going hunting gives them an outlet for any gun-related violence, or maybe they just don't feel as much of a need to use their guns.

[smeeprocket]

That or it's not properly reported or recorded at all.

I don't feel like avid hunting prevents suicides, or that shooting animals will lessen your depression and need to kill yourself. That seems unlikely.

Those kind of thoughts will be there regardless, and the likelihood of you acting on them is increased by the ease at which you can act on them.

[Descan]

You would need to find the causes of suicidal impulses and determine what the difference is (if there is any, it could just be under-reported and Cypriot suicide is comparable to the world-wide average for gun-culture nations) in Cyprus that prevents those impulses from surfacing.

Or it could be, either by legislation or by culture, Cyprus has a better gun attitude, one that prevents them from being a spur-of-the-moment choice for suicide.

Keeping ammo locked away/out of the house, perhaps? Requiring guns to be disabled when not in use? Just having a part of the culture being that Cypriots keep guns on the range/hunting lodge and not in the house, that could also do it if it's there.

[smeeprocket]

Yea I have no knowledge on Cyprus at all so I wouldn't be able to give any input on that.

I am interested, though.

[scriver]

I've also believe that America's gun culture has consequences on the amount of gun violence of the country. Because while no other country has nearly as high guns/people quantity, there are still places out there that has a lot of gun owners (canada, Scandinavia, etc), yet still has much lower violence numbers.

[smeeprocket]

It's a very dangerous culture, it romanticizes violence, and promotes the concept of a lone hero against a world full of villains. These people think they are, and will always be the good guys, and that they are a force against shadowy, often dark skinned, bad guys. This is prevalent among the police also. This faceless threatening mass that they feel opposes them and makes them see danger in every shadow, every movement, every darker hued complexion.

[Zangi]

Some people are far less likely to talk to friends and stuff about their stress/mental problems.  It is easier to just keep quiet about it and 'deal with it' themselves, rather then to 'rock the boat' or make others worry about them...
One of the reasons people latch onto vices... like drugs and alcohol.  To alleviate their stress and what-not.

[smeeprocket]

This is especially true of men, who society encourages to be stoic and unemotional. They have no one to confide in and are expected to be an island. And it crushes them.

Men kill themselves at 3xs the rate as women. There's a lot of damage done by this idea that men need to hold it all in.

[mainiac]

Well a big part of that is that women are much more likely to fail in a suicide attempt then men are.

(Somebody got a good "dumb broads" joke?)

[smeeprocket]

Well a big part of that is that women are much more likely to fail in a suicide attempt then men are.

(Somebody got a good "dumb broads" joke?)

... :/