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Ted Cruz

7 (6.5%)

Rick Santorum

16 (14.8%)

Michelle Bachmann

13 (12%)

Chris Christie

23 (21.3%)

Rand Paul

49 (45.4%)

Total Members Voted: 107

[GreatJustice]

When cupcakes are outlawed, only the outlaws will have cupcakes

[Sheb]

Yeah, you should read Joel Salatin's Everything I do is illegal for more stuff like that. The thing is, some regulations that makes sense for big business are unaffordable for small business.

[GlyphGryph]

And we know which of the two has the most lobbying muscle in Congress...

There's also the fact that rules aren't perfect because reality is complicated. At some point, this was allowed, and then someone figured out a way to abuse the hell out of it, and they responded by banning it for everybody because they can't realistically discern the abuse cases from the acceptable ones.

Then there's the disconnect between the officials who pass a law (for a specific purpose), and those charged with enforcing it (who may go by the letter of the law even in situations the original legislators did not foresee, or be a normal lazy bureaucrat and pursue the "easy" examples).

All three of these rules come into play hard for areas of medicine and food, hence the FDA, because screwing up has lots of potential danger for the public.

So, while seemingly stupid things like this might be things we all agree are dumb, it's also unsurprising. I'm sure there's people who thought they had a good reason to ban home-bakeries.

But I also suspect that if we employed better legislators this wouldn't have happened, and that lobbyists have made damn well sure this sort of stupidity doesn't negatively impact them.

(this is something people should keep in mind when they argue against the existence of lobbyists - many legislators are REALLY STUPID. A lack of lobbyists in some situations could very well result in legislation that is worse for everybody - at the very least having lobbyists means there is SOMEONE involved that might have an idea of the actual effects the legislation will have)

And... of course... everyone in the comments somehow blames Obama for this bullshit. lol

[Sheb]

Actually it's more regulators than legislator. You can't (and shouldn't) expect Congress to foresee everycase and react quickly to evidence than regulation are flawed.

[GlyphGryph]

A lot of the state and especially city level regulator stuff is actually pretty much directly following legislation, isnt it? At least in my experience this sort of thing often comes straight from the desk of the city council or something.

Since home kitchen bakeries are entirely legal at the federal level and most state levels, I dont think this is likely to be due to just regulators, but more likely xome city council or something.

[Helgoland]

From reading the article it appears that the problem was the lack of a seperate kitchen for the business - and a business it was: Not a 1$ lemonade stand, but something that earned her money in the triple digits. So yeah, the regulations seem to be fairly local ones. Municipal level, maybe? I don't know the US bureaucracy very well.

[GlyphGryph]

Not a federal or state law against this. Only thing on the books state level is specifically allowing it - this restriction looks to be county level. It's amazing how much the laws can change from town to town here in the US in regards to what you can do and what you need for various business stuff.

Starting my own business, I faced the same sort of problem - what I was trying to do was incredibly more complex, legally (and a lot more expensive) than if I'd gotten a new apartment a few blocks away.

There's a lot of fucked up local enforcement - if you think lobbying is bad at the federal level, local lobbies can get specific people fucked spectacularly with only a single person supporting it. Protectionism, vendettas, pointless bureaucracy and petty tyrants is the name of the game.

A lot of it comes down to one of the things I hate most about local government - zoning. God DAMN do I hate zoning laws.

[GreatJustice]

On the local government level, most of it comes down to busy-bodies that don't have a damn clue what they're regulating, but "IT HAS TO BE SAFE" so they pass ridiculous restrictions on businesses, for example, exceptionally strict fire hazard restrictions on tiny hotels. On the state and federal levels, though, it mostly comes down to corporate lobbying; MegaBreakfast/SuperDrugs/etc can afford to enforce very strict (if somewhat pointless) health and safety rules simply by virtue of economies of scale, while Tim's Dinery will have a much harder time with each individual law. In the long run, a corporation can destroy the smaller competition simply by being capable of weathering all of the regulations (and requisite mountains of paperwork requiring phalanxes of lawyers to decipher) and come out with a net profit.

[kaijyuu]

It's not like big corporations need the government to help them destroy small businesses


Anywho, I don't think there's any inherent problem with the big bad government taking down lemonade stands. They just need to have good reasons. If they don't have good reasons, that's where public accountability comes in; IE, this thread, that article, etc.

[GreatJustice]

Certainly gives them a big advantage. Huge corporations have plenty of disadvantages vs local small businesses (diseconomies of scale and so on) at least in industries where a small business is viable at all, so requiring things to be bureaucratized and complicated is a gigantic boon for them since it "levels the playing field" in one of the areas where they have a disadvantage.

Somewhat on the same topic, California is cracking down on "computer boot camps". This sort of thing is honestly an incredible way to save time and money in learning worthwhile skills without being screwed over by excessive tuition fees, and they actually crack down on it? And Americans wonder why people are so deep in student debt.

[GlyphGryph]

God, fuck California.

Even if they let the school stay open it looks like they will be forcing them to fire their best teacher.

The Educational system in many places in this country are actually intentionally fucked up, it's pretty crazy how badly.

[misko27]

On three distinctly Canadian notes, the Bieber debacle becomes more interesting: Here is Rob Ford (of crack-smoking Toronto mayor fame) defending Bieber regarding Bieber being charged with assault in Toronto, and here is the White House preparing to respond to the Bieber petition following it reaching it's 100,000 signature goal in 30 days (presumably brought to you by the same people who wishes he went to Best Korea).

On a note sure to be ignored, the State department's report rules in favor of the Keystone XL pipeline. Only Obama's say-so is needed now.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I really, really hope Bieber is deported. There needs to be a message sent that the rich can't just ignore the law.

[GreatJustice]

On two distinctly Canadian notes, the Bieber debacle becomes more interesting: Here is Rob Ford (of crack-smoking Toronto mayor fame) defending Bieber regarding Bieber being charged with assault in Toronto, and here is the White House preparing to respond to the Bieber petition following it reaching it's 100,000 signature goal in 30 days (presumably brought to you by the same people who wishes he went to Best Korea).

On a note sure to make everyone entirely ignore the previous paragraph, the State department's report rules in favor of the Keystone XL pipeline. Only Obama's say-so is needed now.

No. No please don't send him back. We don't want him. I feel ashamed just knowing he's from the same country, let alone from a city just two hours north of mine.

[Culise]

Certainly gives them a big advantage. Huge corporations have plenty of disadvantages vs local small businesses (diseconomies of scale and so on) at least in industries where a small business is viable at all, so requiring things to be bureaucratized and complicated is a gigantic boon for them since it "levels the playing field" in one of the areas where they have a disadvantage.

Somewhat on the same topic, California is cracking down on "computer boot camps". This sort of thing is honestly an incredible way to save time and money in learning worthwhile skills without being screwed over by excessive tuition fees, and they actually crack down on it? And Americans wonder why people are so deep in student debt.

California Department of Consumer Affairs spokesman Russ Heimerich said that as educational institutions that charge "a fairly hefty chunk of money" and are not operated by religious organizations or accredited by another agency, the coding boot camps clearly fall under the regulatory authority of the Bureau for Private Postsecondary Education, which oversees about 1,400 career schools and for-profit colleges.

The solution here is obvious.  The First Unified Church of the Circuit Board, spreading the good word of silicon and transistors to the masses.