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Bay12 Presidential Focus Polling 2016

Ted Cruz
- 7 (6.5%)
Rick Santorum
- 16 (14.8%)
Michelle Bachmann
- 13 (12%)
Chris Christie
- 23 (21.3%)
Rand Paul
- 49 (45.4%)

Total Members Voted: 107


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Author Topic: Bay12 Election Night Watch Party  (Read 821350 times)

Descan

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Re: Le Megathread de FJ du Politique Améri-Canadiain Deux: Éh?
« Reply #4710 on: December 10, 2013, 05:56:48 pm »

I would be okay with having a North American citizenship, and maaaaybe a currency union? But anything more than that is a little "lolnope"
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Loud Whispers

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Re: FJ's American Politics Megathread Two: Celebrating Four Decades of Malaise
« Reply #4711 on: December 10, 2013, 05:58:41 pm »

Example:  UK is pushing people to buy houses for subprime rates again and actively encouraging them to saddle up with debt before the housing bubble there bursts.
I remember hearing this on the radio, the bloke speaking said it was fine since Brits were more skeptical and weren't going to make the mistakes made before global recession happened.
And then I genuinely felt fear, because the only thing as bad as relying on politicians not to be stupid is relying on the people on not being stupid.

Max White

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Re: Le Megathread de FJ du Politique Améri-Canadiain Deux: Éh?
« Reply #4712 on: December 10, 2013, 05:59:16 pm »

But the question is: Would Camerida be a republic or constitutional monarchy?
Would Canada really be willing to loose commonwealth status just to become part of the US?

MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Le Megathread de FJ du Politique Améri-Canadiain Deux: Éh?
« Reply #4713 on: December 10, 2013, 06:00:26 pm »

The individual provinces could maintain commonwealth status, while the rest of the NAU would not. Though Quebec would probably be fine with losing commonwealth status.
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Sheb

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Re: Le Megathread de FJ du Politique Améri-Canadiain Deux: Éh?
« Reply #4714 on: December 10, 2013, 06:02:22 pm »

Deepening cooperation may have a place, but the US is never going to give up sovereignty to some other body, and Canada wouldn't want to be simply annexed.
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Descan

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Re: Le Megathread de FJ du Politique Améri-Canadiain Deux: Éh?
« Reply #4715 on: December 10, 2013, 06:04:19 pm »

We'd be a crowned republic, with a party-proportional senate and a individual-member house of representatives, with a president being the party-leader of the senate-majority party. That is, you vote for the party for the senate, and you vote for the person you want representing your district, without their party influencing who leads the government.

Also, some sort of non-FPTP for the house (the senate is just "whoever has the most votes in the party is party leader, second most is the first person to get into the senate, third is second, etc. Already non-FPTP). Instant run-off or something, whichever one has "This is my first choice, if they don't win then my vote goes to this second person."

With all senate candidates (and party leaders) being voted on in primaries by party-member citizens.

And while we're at pipe-dreams, the house districts are decided by algorithm, the senate is purely proportional across the nation and not state-by-state. 100 people in the senate for 100% representation. You get 20% of the vote, you get 20 senate members.

And no electoral college.

And also free tuition and healthcare and a basic income guarantee at the poverty line, fixed to inflation. No other welfare system needed.

And I also want a pony.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2013, 06:07:31 pm by Descan »
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Le Megathread de FJ du Politique Améri-Canadiain Deux: Éh?
« Reply #4716 on: December 10, 2013, 06:07:44 pm »

Deepening cooperation may have a place, but the US is never going to give up sovereignty to some other body, and Canada wouldn't want to be simply annexed.
I have said for a while that the best way to make this happen, if it happens, is to dissolve the US and Canada (and the rest of North and South America, for that matter) entirely and create a new, singular framework.

For the moment, though, I would definitely be in favor of open boarders with Canada and economic unification above the scope of NAFTA.
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mainiac

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Re: FJ's American Politics Megathread Two: Celebrating Four Decades of Malaise
« Reply #4717 on: December 10, 2013, 06:09:39 pm »

*More like a massive debt. Sure private corporations have capital, but the US sees it debt rise by 5% of it's GDP/year.

How many times do we have to go over this?  The debt outlook for the US is entirely managable, within historical and international comparisons when put in context by the size of the economy.

Of course we are talking about capital which means that this view is even more backwards.  Most capital is highly liquid securities, i.e. someone elses debt.  While the level of domestic lending is an important statistic, it's pretty much meaningless in the context of "how much capital is available."

Now if you are talking about foreign debts, that's an asset for the US, not a liability.  Yes, foreigners own hundreds of billions of dollars of US assets.  But Americans own hundreds of billions of dollars of foreign assets!  And while the foreigners have invested more capital in our assets, they have done so with buying very low yield assets.  As a result we come out tens of billions of dollars the winner every year, a trend that continues from back before your father was a twinkle in your grandfather's eye.

So, as always, the debt fearmongering is misplaced, you've just found a new dimension of it to be misplaced about.

I think the idea of a US-Canadian merger is stupid for all sorts of reasons, but a monetary union or currency peg would be a very good thing for American-Canadian investment if the Federal Reserve managed things responsibly unlike the utter failure that the European Central Bank has made of things.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2013, 06:11:14 pm by mainiac »
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« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
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Frumple

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Re: Le Megathread de FJ du Politique Améri-Canadiain Deux: Éh?
« Reply #4718 on: December 10, 2013, 06:10:25 pm »

Yeeaaahh, I can't really see where the advantage is for Canada in the proposed merger. NAFTA and related junk is already there, military et al is functionally already there (It'd take some hella' geopolitical change before the US lets anyone invade Canada, and I'm not aware of Canada having much other military issues they [want to] give a shit about.)... what would Canada actually be getting from the union, besides a great heap of the state's problems? I rather imagine Canada's already getting everything they want out of the USA, and merging would only make that more, not less, difficult.

Now, mind, as an American I wouldn't exactly complain about shafting my hat a little, but I don't see why my hat would let me. Have you seen Florida? Shit is not proportional, and if the state of the state is any indication the states aren't very good at taking care of that part of things.
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Max White

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Re: Le Megathread de FJ du Politique Améri-Canadiain Deux: Éh?
« Reply #4719 on: December 10, 2013, 06:12:43 pm »

I have said for a while that the best way to make this happen, if it happens, is to dissolve the US and Canada (and the rest of North and South America, for that matter) entirely and create a new, singular framework.

For the moment, though, I would definitely be in favor of open boarders with Canada and economic unification above the scope of NAFTA.
Well it would be a good chance to rework that thing you call a constitution... I feel like you need in big, bold letters, right up the top "WE ARE A SECULAR NATION. RELIGIOUS BELIEFS ARE NOT JUSTIFICATION FOR LEGISLATION."

That should help...

mainiac

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Re: Le Megathread de FJ du Politique Améri-Canadiain Deux: Éh?
« Reply #4720 on: December 10, 2013, 06:18:07 pm »

what would Canada actually be getting from the union, besides a great heap of the state's problems?

Long term, there would be some reduction in premiums on some types of assets related to trade.  Short term the idiosyncrasies between US labor and treasury markets (weak and very low) and Canadian unemployment and inflation rates (low and low) would that Canadian citizens would probably enjoy a further increase in purchasing power.
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« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Le Megathread de FJ du Politique Améri-Canadiain Deux: Éh?
« Reply #4721 on: December 10, 2013, 06:20:17 pm »

I have said for a while that the best way to make this happen, if it happens, is to dissolve the US and Canada (and the rest of North and South America, for that matter) entirely and create a new, singular framework.

For the moment, though, I would definitely be in favor of open boarders with Canada and economic unification above the scope of NAFTA.
Well it would be a good chance to rework that thing you call a constitution... I feel like you need in big, bold letters, right up the top "WE ARE A SECULAR NATION. RELIGIOUS BELIEFS ARE NOT JUSTIFICATION FOR LEGISLATION."

That should help...
I think Canada's got the bigger problem, considering their Charter of Rights and Freedoms claims the supremacy of the Christian god.
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Dutchling

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Re: Le Megathread de FJ du Politique Améri-Canadiain Deux: Éh?
« Reply #4722 on: December 10, 2013, 06:23:19 pm »

I have said for a while that the best way to make this happen, if it happens, is to dissolve the US and Canada (and the rest of North and South America, for that matter) entirely and create a new, singular framework.

For the moment, though, I would definitely be in favor of open boarders with Canada and economic unification above the scope of NAFTA.
Well it would be a good chance to rework that thing you call a constitution... I feel like you need in big, bold letters, right up the top "WE ARE A SECULAR NATION. RELIGIOUS BELIEFS ARE NOT JUSTIFICATION FOR LEGISLATION."

That should help...
I think Canada's got the bigger problem, considering their Charter of Rights and Freedoms claims the supremacy of the Christian god.
Yeah, but all your politicians seem to claim the same thing
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Max White

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Re: Le Megathread de FJ du Politique Améri-Canadiain Deux: Éh?
« Reply #4723 on: December 10, 2013, 06:25:32 pm »

Two birds, one stone!

I should see if we have anything like that in our constitution, Australian federation was only like, 30 something years after Canadian? Ideology would have been somewhat similar...

misko27

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Re: Le Megathread de FJ du Politique Améri-Canadiain Deux: Éh?
« Reply #4724 on: December 10, 2013, 06:31:55 pm »

It sounds like a lot of tosh. I have no idea why she keeps bleating on about the US military. Hell, if I was a Canadian the last thing I'd want is for all of my beautiful resource revenue pouring into the abominable money sink that is the US army, or for my federal government to be decided by the fucking American electorate of all people. No offense meant by that of course, I'm sure you liberal types know exactly what I mean there.

It seems like a bit of a daft article written by someone who thinks stuff like the Russians (who are stuck in the 1980s) planting flags under the North Pole actually matters. She should understand that in the modern world countries that can distribute the revenue from vast natural resources among a smaller, older, wiser population without having to worry about bullshit like military spending or flag planting tend to be happier, more livable and generally successful countries. If your definition of success is the happiness of your people of course, not military might or "influence" or even pure economic power.

China is undoubtedly the main economic power of the century and yet economic power has not necessarily made the common Chinese people any better off than a Canadian or Norwegian.
Well remember Owlbread we didn't say "US/Scottish merger" (although that would be an interesting thought experiment), we said US/Canada.

We'd be a crowned republic, with a party-proportional senate and a individual-member house of representatives, with a president being the party-leader of the senate-majority party. That is, you vote for the party for the senate, and you vote for the person you want representing your district, without their party influencing who leads the government.

Also, some sort of non-FPTP for the house (the senate is just "whoever has the most votes in the party is party leader, second most is the first person to get into the senate, third is second, etc. Already non-FPTP). Instant run-off or something, whichever one has "This is my first choice, if they don't win then my vote goes to this second person."

With all senate candidates (and party leaders) being voted on in primaries by party-member citizens.

And while we're at pipe-dreams, the house districts are decided by algorithm, the senate is purely proportional across the nation and not state-by-state. 100 people in the senate for 100% representation. You get 20% of the vote, you get 20 senate members.

And no electoral college.

And also free tuition and healthcare and a basic income guarantee at the poverty line, fixed to inflation. No other welfare system needed.

And I also want a pony.
Everything but the party-based political system and the royals (recall the US being based entirely on anti-royalist principles. We like royals, but when they're over there) sound good. We have a lot of ponies.

It seems then that it can't be done, that it won't be done, and there is little appetite to have it done, unless a US or Canadian Tito shows up and forces them together long enough that they learn they don't dislike being together. Of course in terms of opening ties, I throw my support behind it and MSH on this one.


So US politics time. Congress rather peacefully renews ban on plastic and otherwise undetectable . A amendment to clarify the status of 3d-printed guns as subject to the bill was defeated. A bill outlying the Pentagon principles was passed bipartisanly yet again this year, with changes strengthening anti-sexual assault and/or discrimination measures in the Military, and reiterating the ban on removing prisoners from Guantanamo to the US over objections by Obama, though rules were loosened regarding transfer to other countries
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