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Bay12 Presidential Focus Polling 2016

Ted Cruz
- 7 (6.5%)
Rick Santorum
- 16 (14.8%)
Michelle Bachmann
- 13 (12%)
Chris Christie
- 23 (21.3%)
Rand Paul
- 49 (45.4%)

Total Members Voted: 107


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Author Topic: Bay12 Election Night Watch Party  (Read 832641 times)

PTTG??

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Re: FJ's American Politics Megathread Two: SEDECIM Dies Donec Finis Venerit
« Reply #2445 on: October 01, 2013, 05:29:23 pm »

Personally, I hunger for "no confidence" public recall elections. Allow each state to recall its representatives whenever and however many times its residents believe necessary.

We have the technology today to canvas entire states quickly. There is no reason to deny something like this as being unfeasable.

Problem with that is, electronic voting machine companies are the shadiest thing in the universe.
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misko27

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Re: FJ's American Politics Megathread Two: SEDECIM Dies Donec Finis Venerit
« Reply #2446 on: October 01, 2013, 05:34:12 pm »

Also, they should face some steep salary cuts for catastrophic failures like this.
Actually they've already done that to themselves, In s moment of spite, the House passed a law forbidding the Senate from receiving pay until they pass a budget. The problem is they aren't payed that much compared to what they are worth. The Healthcare is pretty good, but gutting that would include cutting it from their legions of under-paid aides, which even many of the most fiscally conservative find repulsive (THE MONKEYSPHERE LIVES).

People, many are self-financed, and no one supports congress increasing their wages, so it isn't exactly a major problem. they only get COL increases anyway, and cutting all of their funding wouldn't force anyone to change their living standards.
Personally, I hunger for "no confidence" public recall elections. Allow each state to recall its representatives whenever and however many times its residents believe necessary.

We have the technology today to canvas entire states quickly. There is no reason to deny something like this as being unfeasable.


LW: Politicians for profit? Surely you know that is ALREADY the status quo, right? Or did the rhetoric of one former senator Dodd not ring any bells? ;) if not, you can always look into campaign donations, election finance reports, super PACs and pals.

Essentially, Been there, doing that right now. Is the reason we need no confidence.
Coming from the view of hating both parties, I see. Well, did you know, that even if you kicked out every single person in congress, many of the same people would be elected? Actually, you can't have no confidence as it stands in Europe, because legislators are elected individually to each district/state, you wouldn't actually accomplish much. People have much, much higher opinion polls of their own legislator then congress, people don't like the other persons, which I think is a lesson lost. I mean god one may hate Congress, but that is because they aren't doing what you want them to, and you can't simply vote away who other people agreed to represent themselves. Oh, and the best argument against other systems right now is they wouldn't actually fix the problem of extremists controlling the parties, since the extremists come from extremist districts.


I do say the US would be better adapted to a no or single party system, because since you can elect individuals, you can elect someone of your own personal world-view, rather then a parties view meshed with a individuals world-view.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2013, 05:39:09 pm by misko27 »
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Baffler

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Re: FJ's American Politics Megathread Two: SEDECIM Dies Donec Finis Venerit
« Reply #2447 on: October 01, 2013, 05:39:09 pm »

Perhaps incentives for legislatures would be a good place to start implementing some of the direct democracy we're now absolutely capable of.  Make congressional salaries tied to approval ratings.  Open up some sort of vote during crisis like these for the population to have a direct say.

This seems rather counter intuitive, or at least conducive to bribery. I think the exact opposite should be true, congressmen have a set income, and cannot make anything over or under that amount, so that their own personal financial interests don't affect their decisions. Double liberal points if any money they make in excess of that sum is funneled into social programs. Serving the people indeed ;)
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wierd

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Re: FJ's American Politics Megathread Two: SEDECIM Dies Donec Finis Venerit
« Reply #2448 on: October 01, 2013, 05:40:53 pm »

Which is a product of "secret sauce!" Being in the equasion.

Open codebase. Open hardware specification. Open public auditing of the codebase. Open public auditing of the hardware specification.

It works for open hardware and software, like beagleboard and linux.

It can work for specific use voting machines too. Hell, I could build a voting machine around a weaksauce ATMega.


Misko:

People foolishly voting for "their" lizard can't be fixed. That is trying to fix stupid. Doing so destroys the essence of democracy. If the lizard is representing the lizards in their state, they are doing their job.  The no confidence is for people in that state to recall and trash the representative, when they cease representing the local lizard residents of the state. 

Part of the no-confidence recall I so crave, is a 6 year mandatory hiatus from public office for the recalled politician. Being recalled would be career shattering.

Baffler:

I would take that even further. All public servants must liquidate all money market holdings and common stock portfolios, in their entirety, and convert those assets to liquidities. Those liquidities will then be stored in an interest free account, and be untouchable by anyone until the public servant completely leaves politics. At which point, the money in the account will be used to buy back the liquidated stock and markets at the current fair market prices.

« Last Edit: October 01, 2013, 05:48:30 pm by wierd »
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misko27

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Re: FJ's American Politics Megathread Two: SEDECIM Dies Donec Finis Venerit
« Reply #2449 on: October 01, 2013, 05:48:25 pm »

But then the problem is that would not impact the current problems at all; since this would at most mean a reshuffling of the House into more Democratic, which would only fix the shutdown or the debt crisis if they reached a majority; since, by virtue of gerrymandering, the more extreme republicans( the ones who are currently dictating House policy) would actually increase to be a larger percentage of their Party; increasing the political risk John Boehner faces if he were to move for a up-down clean CR bill, funding the government.

That is a longass sentence, and I would like to thank my English teacher, for teaching me the proper use of the Semi-colon; and my US history teacher, for forcing me to read and translate the Articles of Confederation (which had much longer sentences).
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wierd

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Re: FJ's American Politics Megathread Two: SEDECIM Dies Donec Finis Venerit
« Reply #2450 on: October 01, 2013, 05:51:16 pm »

Gerrymandering should be illegal. Redefining the districts on political boundries instead of geographical ones, defeats the very principle of representative samples that sending a representative requires in the first place; it is straight up cherry picking of samples. It's fraud in statistics. It should be fraud in elections.
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wierd

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Re: FJ's American Politics Megathread Two: SEDECIM Dies Donec Finis Venerit
« Reply #2451 on: October 01, 2013, 05:52:20 pm »

Double your pleasure... double your fun.

We'll all be double ass broke whenour government's done!
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RedKing

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Re: FJ's American Politics Megathread Two: SEDECIM Dies Donec Finis Venerit
« Reply #2452 on: October 01, 2013, 05:57:21 pm »

Latest development: House leaders offer to fund the government through a series of bills to fund specific departments and programs.

President (and Senate) rightfully tell House leadership to go fuck themselves with sharp sticks. We do not want a la carte government.
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Re: FJ's American Politics Megathread Two: SEDECIM Dies Donec Finis Venerit
« Reply #2453 on: October 01, 2013, 05:58:27 pm »

Oh dear god no. The EPA and NASA would be effectively abolished, and that's at the very least.
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wierd

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Re: FJ's American Politics Megathread Two: SEDECIM Dies Donec Finis Venerit
« Reply #2454 on: October 01, 2013, 06:05:27 pm »

Personally, I'd return the barbed bait.

"Sure. But only if we pick which orgs and programs go together in which bills."

Then put NASA and EPA in the bill for military R&D.

Watch the blood boil.
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Re: FJ's American Politics Megathread Two: SEDECIM Dies Donec Finis Venerit
« Reply #2455 on: October 01, 2013, 06:29:53 pm »

Personally, I'd return the barbed bait.

"Sure. But only if we pick which orgs and programs go together in which bills."

Then put NASA and EPA in the bill for military R&D.

Watch the blood boil.

They would have no choice but to...

send it back amended and start again, ad nauseam. They're nothing if not predictable.
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Even if you found a suitable opening, I doubt it would prove all too satisfying. And it might leave some nasty wounds, depending on the moral high ground's geology.
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misko27

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Re: FJ's American Politics Megathread Two: SEDECIM Dies Donec Finis Venerit
« Reply #2456 on: October 01, 2013, 06:40:13 pm »

Meanwhile the real damage to the republicans is Obama's Healthcare law is experiencing a significant amount of bugs... And they are all dealing with the shutdown instead of taking advantage. Hell, the bugs are mostly because of high-traffic, and if they are ironed out soon, they will lose their best chance to actually prove it's a bad law.
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Max White

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Re: FJ's American Politics Megathread Two: SEDECIM Dies Donec Finis Venerit
« Reply #2457 on: October 01, 2013, 06:44:53 pm »

Question: Is Obamacare bad? And why?
Public health care works really well in a lot of other places, what is different about Obamacare, or the environment that it exists within, that is a problem?

Baffler

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Re: FJ's American Politics Megathread Two: SEDECIM Dies Donec Finis Venerit
« Reply #2458 on: October 01, 2013, 06:45:18 pm »

If only they weren't so preoccupied. I guess I'll write their arguments for them. Maybe something along the lines of...

"See! Obamacare's site barely runs! It's like a digital version of the long lines in the countries that already have these socialist healthcare schemes! The American people deserve better than this! We're the greatest nation on Earth, and we can't even get basic medical care to our people. This is exactly the kind of thing you expect from this administration!"
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Even if you found a suitable opening, I doubt it would prove all too satisfying. And it might leave some nasty wounds, depending on the moral high ground's geology.
Location subject to periodic change.
Baffler likes silver, walnut trees, the color green, tanzanite, and dogs for their loyalty. When possible he prefers to consume beef, iced tea, and cornbread. He absolutely detests ticks.

Descan

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Re: FJ's American Politics Megathread Two: SEDECIM Dies Donec Finis Venerit
« Reply #2459 on: October 01, 2013, 06:47:28 pm »

Question: Is Obamacare bad? And why?
Public health care works really well in a lot of other places, what is different about Obamacare, or the environment that it exists within, that is a problem?
This should be a good primer.
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