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Author Topic: Dwarven journals  (Read 1730 times)

Eneverforgets

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Dwarven journals
« on: February 06, 2013, 12:10:07 pm »

I like to follow the history of each dwarf.  I think one of the most fun and interesting parts of this game is when something cool happens and then that shows up in dwarf artwork.  But I feel like each Dwarf's personal story is hard to get to.  Either inscribe a ton of walls and see what you get, or carve a slab after they die for a one sentence blurb about them, and of course you can see your dwarf's likes and dislikes and recent happy/unhappy thoughts.

But what about some kind of system that really let you look at what a dwarf had been doing with their life.  It's cool to see that they are happy because they talked with a friend recently, but after awhile that thought goes away and it's lost forever.  Also, you can't really see who they are so happy to be talking to.  So my idea is a journal, so the dwarf might keep track of things that made him happy or unhappy, but in a more specific way. 

Example,
21st Granite 258:
I enjoyed speaking with my spouse, Thikud Manybasements.  I was horrified to see the death of my friend, Ushat Tourhandle, when he was struck down by Dang Horrorbats the goblin, who rammed his iron short sword through Ushat's skull, tearing the brain.  I'm sick of drinking dwarven wine.  There are so many flies by the kitchen; disgusting!
« Last Edit: February 11, 2013, 07:57:50 am by Eneverforgets »
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Aerie

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Re: Dwarven journals
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2013, 01:54:06 pm »

I like this idea. Essentially a permanent thought/mood log.
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: Dwarven journals
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2013, 08:19:18 pm »

Seems neat, but I suspect it would take up tons of memory and get VERY repetitive.
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Putnam

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Re: Dwarven journals
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2013, 11:25:31 pm »

Seems neat, but I suspect it would take up tons of memory and get VERY repetitive.

Not necessarily; after all, art (for example) is only generated when you look at it. This goes for artifacts, too. The same could probably go for these journals.

Criperum

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Re: Dwarven journals
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2013, 01:32:31 am »

I think it would be even better if migrants have some records in their journals about their life before they've arrived. It can be the way for you to know the latets world news.
But the problem is in vampires. They shouldn't mention their feedings in journals and, even worse, they should start new journals every 100 years.
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Eneverforgets

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Re: Dwarven journals
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2013, 06:57:16 am »

Well I was thinking that you could set how much you wanted your dwarves to be recording, kind of how you can set your bookkeeper to different levels of accuracy.  And maybe writing stuff down could give dwarves happy and unhappy thoughts.  "he was pleased to be recording his life for future generations" and "he hates writing things in a journal"

You could even have them record things that you don't really know at the moment, like what they've been making at workshops.  Parties they've attended and who threw it and who was there. 
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shadenight123

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Re: Dwarven journals
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2013, 10:40:27 am »

Maybe it could be directly 'dumped' in a text every time you want one?
Then the memory could get 'refreshed' and it would start again, but you'd have a nice folder with more folders (one for dwarf) where you could put the stuff.
And journals would have to be built in game, have the ink from the alchemist profession made and then assigned to the dwarf we want the diary of.
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Escapism

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Re: Dwarven journals
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2013, 11:05:44 am »

Seems neat, but I suspect it would take up tons of memory and get VERY repetitive.

Easily solved by implementing analphabetism (or, well, keeping analphabetism as it is with a small minority in addition to necromancers being able to write books), and making parchment/paper rare. Besides, who would be willing to use what little free time they could spare to write a journal?

For this to make sense, I think they should also be made meaningful, on a game-play level, to the adventurer. Procedural journals describing how to find certain places (shrines, hidden treasures, ruins of times long gone) that are unknown to the general populace, what dangers might lurk in abandoned forts, magical experiments on how to summon certain entities etc. Not all of the journals, but a chosen few to give an incentive to take on a "scholarly"/archaelogistic approach to adventuring, which would have its own unique playstyle and rewards. Also, "journals" describing the extent, positioning and planned movements of a faction's armies or their treasury that might be of interest to foreign powers, thus allowing the player to take on lucrative missions as a spy.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2013, 11:10:07 am by Escapism »
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Scoops Novel

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Re: Dwarven journals
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2013, 11:12:35 am »

Could key events, personal and otherwise, use some form of extract generator? Say, a dwarf gone for a stiff drink telling tales about the 5 way war they just had (the last 2 being a ettin and a pair of giants), or a journal quote about how in love they are, etc. Being able to command dwarves to keep a journal or records, with their own reactions to such, would be nice too.
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Escapism

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Re: Dwarven journals
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2013, 02:37:45 pm »

Could key events, personal and otherwise, use some form of extract generator? Say, a dwarf gone for a stiff drink telling tales about the 5 way war they just had (the last 2 being a ettin and a pair of giants), or a journal quote about how in love they are, etc. Being able to command dwarves to keep a journal or records, with their own reactions to such, would be nice too.

What constitutes "key events" is really interesting to consider in this context. A scribe might describe historically important events, such as the slaying of a leader in battle, the signing of a peace treaty and concession of certain lands, or the dynasty of a noble family, which, even if said events only occur abstractly, would give the world a living history that is readily available aside from legends, the consequences of which can actually be seen through the eyes of the adventurer.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2013, 02:39:47 pm by Escapism »
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Naryar

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Re: Dwarven journals
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2013, 03:32:17 am »

One for each dwarf is too much. One for the whole fort, why not ?

I mean, it'll give a more Moria-esque experience if you visit a fallen fort.

GreatWyrmGold

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Re: Dwarven journals
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2013, 10:12:16 pm »

Seems neat, but I suspect it would take up tons of memory and get VERY repetitive.
Not necessarily; after all, art (for example) is only generated when you look at it. This goes for artifacts, too. The same could probably go for these journals.
Still...two things.
Even if they only wrote in their journals once a week, that's 48 entries--likely including 3-4 events per entry at times--per year per dwarf. That's a lot, once you start getting big, long-lived forts.
Also, how would the game do that? It would need to remember what events were worth recording at any given time.
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kontako

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Re: Dwarven journals
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2013, 04:53:35 am »

What if only dwarves with reading/writing skills could write in journals. It would finally give the reading/writing skill a use in fortress mode and would definitely cut down on the amount of journals.
As mentioned previously maybe the fortress should contain 1 journal which contains all the important information and all key events, say, wars, sieges, beast attacks, rumors, etc <-- basically a summery of the current issues in the region.  :-\

Although I do agree. It would be extremely interesting to view the world via the dwarves eyes.
Rather than every event written down, a short summery of the most important happenings would be easier to keep track of, eg. 'This has been a fantastic week! no one has died and the fortress is flowing with beer!' or 'This has been a horrible week, *enter dwarf name here* has died! and the goblins are holding us at siege.'
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Eneverforgets

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Re: Dwarven journals
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2013, 08:17:45 am »

Could this kind of information be a lot to keep track of?  Of course it could, but this is Dwarf Fortress we're talking about here!  When did "that would be too crazy" become an obstacle?  Though maybe the ability to set how specific your dwarves were in their documentation, or even if they kept journals at all could be user controlled.  Much as the bookkeeper will only be as specific as you want him to be.  So if you wanted them to document their every happy/unhappy thought, you could do that.  If you wanted them only to document big things in life or things that made them really unhappy/happy, they would do that. 

There are lots of ways people have suggested to modify this idea.  A single fortress-wide journal is pretty cool.  Though I still like the idea of being able to follow even the mundane happenings of every dwarf.  Part of the fun of the game for me is watching each dwarf's idiosyncrasies play out with each other.  And I'm interested in seeing how things change for a dwarf over time. 

First he was happy just admiring a door.  But then he got married and he enjoyed his wife.  Then they went to a lot of parties at the green glass statue.  Then his wife got her brain torn by a unicorn and he was miserable.

Currently, you can still get most of this data.  But it's not easy to get all in one place at one time.
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Veylon

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Re: Dwarven journals
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2013, 02:51:16 pm »

Most of this stuff is already stored in one manner or another. Take a look at your gamelog.txt some time. Or browse legends mode. A journal would basically just need to parse stuff that's already there and put it in first person.

You could even have individual events get their own histories or journals. "The Invasion of the Plains Titan Sxanu Wolfwinters", for instance could be cobbled together, giving a brief description of what the Titan did beforehand, who the major combatants where, and how the battle played. There could be a "research book" job that scribes take up while they visit the scenes where the events happened and visit with survivors (or the families of the fallen) before "writing book". How the scholar chooses to describe the various things that happen could depend on how much he likes the dwarves involved (or their family members), what his favorite weapon is, and other stuff. If he likes, say, microline and, during his research, finds out that part of the fight took place on a microline bridge, he might choose to focus on how fine and cyan the bridge is (or was) rather than some other phase of the battle.

So, you could get something like:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The gist of it is that a werewolf killed a dog, mauled the first dwarf who ran off (underequipped) to fight it, transformed back, and ran away. Afterwards, nobody brought the injured dwarf a bucket of water, so he died of thirst. But, since his best friend was a scribe, this gets an epic retelling in book form.

I guess the main challenge here would be paring down and breaking up the reports into something reasonable. We don't want a million "X parried Y's blow with his shield". I suppose redundant entries could be rolled up it a single description, but doesn't help when there's twenty goblins fighting ten dwarves. Maybe pick out a half-dozen kills and roll up another half-dozen redundant entries, filtered by scholar bias. The scholar might prefer to write about the heroic doings of his friends and leaders and downplay his enemies' roles. If there's a weapon/armor involved that he likes the type of or made of a metal he likes, that could end up with it's own paragraph. All this is to keep the journals from being quite so repetitive and boring by injecting flavor text and essentially making every book a work of propaganda.
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