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[Toaster]

Tiruin:  Why don't you read some of my posts for a change?

Your first team choice sucked and I said why
At least one of you and Leaf is scum, and I think he's town ergo you are scum by process of elimination
You mess up and call Leafsnail "confirmed scum" so I call you out on it.  This is where you start your completely baseless and scummy insistence that there was exactly one spy on that team.
More of that

Hey, scumbag. I think you forgot Deathsword, eh?

How is this relevant to Leaf's argument at all?

That's true.  But he's dead and scum, so who cares about him?  All that matters are the three spies alive now.

Smooth move, tiger. Eliminate ToonyMan because of a slip.

This moves beyond irrelevance and into "What the hell are you talking about?"

Look at Nerjin. He is flailing. You think scum would out themselves that easily?

And that's somewhere between a deflection and WIFOM.

Here's you being scummy.

You knowing too much again
You making no sense
Liar liar pants on fire

After this I pretty much quit reading your posts to find scummy bits since I don't need any more, but I'm sure they are there.




ZU is scum so I will probably distrust his team by default, but since I'm next, let me do a "who would I vote for?" chart.

Scum, will downvote:  Tiruin, ZU
Likely scum, will downvote:  NQT

Would rather avoid but will support if no better option will occur:  Nerjin

Town, put them on team:  Toaster, Ford
Probably Town- upvotes:  LS, Toony, Dariush

You can pretty much figure out what team I'm likely to build off that list. (Hint:  Toaster Ford Toony Dariush)  If you don't like it, let me know why.

[Dariush]

Well, shit. NQT, I am really, really disappoint.

What I hoped he was doing was create a team that is guaranteed to contain a spy, have a couple of rebels claim to upvote while actually do the opposite (along with NQT himself) and catch the spies in upvoting. Alas, it looks like he is simply a dumbfuck idiot. Le sniff.

[notquitethere]

Nah Dar, I did think about doing the Ford gambit again but I figured late in that no one was gonna fall for it. And right enough. Unless Tiruin?

[Tiruin]

I do read your posts. What I'm pointing is why you say "scum read is strong." Look, you've made good points in pointing out scummy business, in Mafia terms - acting irrational there does point at scum trying to mislead town, or in the least dislodge any scumhunting. What I'm pointing at is why its scummy in this game. Nobody has ever acted upon that and its WEEK 3 DAY 4 already! Its pretty obvious that know I won't be picked in a team seeing how you all put it, but still I'm being singled out time and time again for...what? that' I'm clamoring for being picked in one? No.

Also, mess up? LS has been high on my scum list - saying him as confirmed scum means that he's scum in my eyes due to how he posts, against me or in addressing the public.

On the last link in the first paragraph, I addressed that fact. He's outing me by using the lack of knowledge as his tool there, hence why I'm saying there's one scum at M1.

The quote? THat was me putting pressure. Your "knowing too much" is just following cyclic reasoning.

I'm sure you know there was exactly one spy, because it was you.  There's no other way you could know for sure there was just one spy.

And nailing it with a fallible definitive.

"Making no sense" and that other thing was already explained by me. Why is it relevant that I'm the leader? Because judging from my viewpoint, I can see who in the world I picked. This means that out of the two choices in my damned team, one of them is scum - I haven't discarded the idea that both of you may be scum and planned a non-sabotage, but I never mentioned this idea because its too impossible and too hard to justify. Goodness, if both of you were scum then the game's in the bag already and we've been discussing non stop about it for no gain at all.

After all that, you didn't explain the scum read is strong. This was before mentioning the rest. I mean, I see why you disagree with my first M1 pick, but how does this reasoning make sense? Because...of how I picked it? What does that entail?

Scum, will downvote:  Tiruin, ZU
Likely scum, will downvote:  NQT

Good gods this is turning into a game of unreasonable Mafia where due to the lack of roleflips or valid information, people get damned without bail or leave. Oh let's predict this person's vote because of what we've seen before.

I'm starting to lose faith that you're seeing me voting based more on "Oh this person is scum, the team must be wrong someway" and less on 'probable cause' and who I see is scum in the team. Besides, once I downvote the team it must be purely rebel, right? Naah, forget answering this, "its all WIFOM which I won't even bother to explain."

Also, tip. There are scummy bits in every player's posts. Its just up to the person to make it into a case. I'm sure they are there.

ZU: Whatever you pick just put Toaster instead of me on it and not LS.

PPE: Dar; NQT.

Nah Dar, I did think about doing the Ford gambit again but I figured late in that no one was gonna fall for it. And right enough. Unless Tiruin?

Unless me what?

[ToonyMan]

Damn, my prediction was off, but to be fair it was the impossible-to-predict Captain Ford.

Well, shit. NQT, I am really, really disappoint.
What I hoped he was doing was create a team that is guaranteed to contain a spy, have a couple of rebels claim to upvote while actually do the opposite (along with NQT himself) and catch the spies in upvoting. Alas, it looks like he is simply a dumbfuck idiot. Le sniff.

You were being predictable as fuck though.  At least you got NQT and Tiruin again, just like I predicted no less.

@Tiruin:
If you know the first mission only has one spy, can you please explain?  Please please please please please please explain to me why there was only spy in that mission.

The reason I believe that is true:
1.  There was only one sabotage
2.  If there were two they could have both up-voted the third mission for an easy win

So just please, explain to me how there was only one spy, even if it's one of the reasons I just stated I'm okay with that.  I don't want you to be confused still when the game finishes.  If you're reasoning is purely based on "there is no reasoning" which is what you have been saying, then how are people suppose to understand you?  You can't have an incomprehensible meaning because nobody will understand what you're saying.  It's literally insanity.

[Dariush]

You were being predictable as fuck though.

Never underestimate human stupidity. It worked on Tiruin, didn't it.

[Tiruin]

I am apt to ramble on about things when I'm lost. Yeah :/ sorry

If you know the first mission only has one spy, can you please explain?  Please please please please please please explain to me why there was only spy in that mission.

Seeing my explanation, I know its really unbelievable if we go by the normal Mafia way. One is, I know I'm town, therefore singling me out. Let's get the point that this is the core basis of my case. If I'm scum, then nothing else matters because I'd be lying through my teeth from day 1. Know that I'm generally against that, but debating that part of lies would just lead to a bad end. I'm also basing most of me theory on mission results and people's reaction to them.

Those two reasons are clear in my mind and I wholly agree with them. To add to that: I am the leader of that mission. There are only two other people up for suspect. Now they could both be spies, what led me on that tangent was their replies to the results of the first mission. Toaster reacted neutrally, holding both others in speculation for scum. Leafsnail, didn't. He singled out one other person and including the 'Nerjin is scum' thing at the time led me to prod and poke it. I addressed it (bottom of page please), and was not answered at all from him in the proceeding posts. Later on, he shifts on a neutral basis "If Tiruin or Toaster are the spies" and gives off the I am Town because My PM Said So deal "I know I'm town-..." thing.

Why I know there's one spy, and why I declare that all this is moot if I'm a spy is this case. Spies had one day, regardless of timezones, to plan up. Now if I was a spy, there is a whole myriad of things I could do with that upvoted mission - it could contain two, heck even three spies and our plan would be for one of us to sabotage and the rest to lay low. My imagination goes even as far to believe that they have a SoP (standard operating procedure) regarding the case if [SPY > 2] in a mission, there is an order of who to sabotage and who to not sabotage.

But yeah, it basically all boils down to that fact. Toaster addressed the idea with neutrality, a certain speculation coming from one who sincerely cares. Leafsnail didn't give anything but wavering reads and labels. If the latter was town, he'd at least do something unlike what the former did, so hence me leading to the idea that there was one scum.

What else below this is just added musing:

And now I get what you were coming at with the 'knowing too much' case. Town are at a disadvantage - at this rate, we have to get this perfect until the 5th mission - relying on a 5/6 basis of spotting town instead of scum. Now, why would this person [me] go ahead and keep on stating that there was one spy in the first mission? Is she defending something, or is there anything else up? I'm acting on two core principles which are stated above. They are that I know I'm town - this is hard to explain, yeah. And the second is reasoning post-mission.

Spies could go ahead and give the third and fourth mission entirely, only to compromise it in the fifth, was my idea. T'would be a waste of time, but putting in all variables for the win would lead to this. Leading to my worry about the current state of affairs and...well, as you put it, tugging on any string to correct people's eyesight.

Spoiler: OOC (click to show/hide)

Still goes to show how much I've to do in talking to others in English :/

Don't use this as any basis in decision, please. Its just me saying it out.

Still, pick Toaster because he's the only other person I'm sure of in being town other than Toony and Ford.

PPE: Ouch.

[zombie urist]

What do you guys think about a Toony, Ford, Dariush, Nerjin team?

I'm kinda nervous how Tiruin's been like "pick Toaster" in every post so far.

As far-fectched as it may seem, I'm beginning to wonder if a Tiruin/Toaster/LS team is possible.

[Tiruin]

As far-fectched as it may seem, I'm beginning to wonder if a Tiruin/Toaster/LS team is possible.

It is possible but it isn't. :/

I'm kinda nervous how Tiruin's been like "pick Toaster" in every post so far.

So other than read on our interactions, why does this unnerve you?

[Captain Ford]

Truth be told, I'd be more worried about Dariush.

My "raw paranoia" scumteam is Toaster, Dariush and somebody at random. Probably Nerjin.

But if I were to take Tiruin's argument, it would be LS, Dar and ... probably Nerjin. Maybe you instead of Dariush?

But I think Tiruin/Leafsnail/Toaster is incredibly unlikely.

...

Man ... what if the scumteam is LS, NQT and Nerjin?

[Nerjin]

Truth be told, I'd be more worried about Dariush.

My "raw paranoia" scumteam is Toaster, Dariush and somebody at random. Probably Nerjin.

But if I were to take Tiruin's argument, it would be LS, Dar and ... probably Nerjin. Maybe you instead of Dariush?

But I think Tiruin/Leafsnail/Toaster is incredibly unlikely.

...

Man ... what if the scumteam is LS, NQT and Nerjin?

Okay I respect your opinion but I have a question. Remember your "gambit" not too long ago? The one where you were trying to trip up scum on a false vote? Where they may, just for argument, switch their stated vote. I remember that. I also, vaguely, remember someone falling into that trap... What was there name again? Zomb... Something... Zombie Something... Zombie Urist! That's right. So... remind me why the person who fell into your "scum-trap" isn't scum Ford... Please... Why is that?

[ToonyMan]

explanation

Okay, I get it.  You're getting scumreads on Leafsnail and not Toaster.  And you know yourself to be town so there was likely only one spy on the first failed mission.  That's easy to see.

What do you guys think about a Toony, Ford, Dariush, Nerjin team?

So highly unlikely it hurts, there's only three spies ZU.

I'm kinda nervous how Tiruin's been like "pick Toaster" in every post so far.

I like this sentence because it makes me want to think Leafsnail is a spy because you're implying Tiruin and Toaster are spies.  I'm not sure where you're going here though.

As far-fectched as it may seem, I'm beginning to wonder if a Tiruin/Toaster/LS team is possible.

Another team??  This is also implying that LS is a spy so it makes me want to trust LS more.


I am seriously starting to consider that Ford is a spy.  ZU is definitely a spy, Tiruin is wishy-washy, NQT is quite likely a spy.  Although if Ford is really a spy that burned his own teammates that's fucking hilarious.  Poor Zombie.

In fact, if I think that ZU and Ford are the spies, I would hover my third spy position towards Leafsnail.  He would clearly be pulling a trust gambit and then vote himself in for the final mission.

Although Toaster could easily be as possible.  Although neither the ZU/Ford/Leafsnail or the ZU/Ford/Toaster teams pass my "spies will always sabotage" test.  In fact ZU/Ford/Leafsnail would mean the second failed mission was 3/4 spies. 

I'm kind of reading Leafsnail more town than Toaster right now though.  And Tiruin I'm really just not sure.


Got any teams for us ZU?  I can't wait for them!  I'm very sure about you at least.

[ToonyMan]

Oh I'm sorry, I read your first sentence wrong ZU.  I thought you were listing a spy team. 

I can't really accept any team you make though.  Even if it doesn't have you.

[Captain Ford]

Nerjin: Because I want to see where this goes.

ToonyMan: Now why is that? Just because I suspect people of being spies I can't talk with them about their suspicions? What's wrong with looking for confirmation or investigating alternatives?

Sheesh. It's like I'm committing some kind of crime for letting you see my uncertainty, like I'm being indecent or something. "Put some clothes on Ford!" "But Toony, you're the one who asked me to take them off in the first place!"

[ToonyMan]

If the third spy is Toaster they've already won though.  So I have to assume the third spy is either Tiruin or Leafsnail.

Think about it, ZU and Toaster are the only two people who can make teams.  Toaster cannot be a spy or else why the hell are we still playing this game.

If anything Toaster is confirmed rebel, unless GG just wants this to go on for some reason.

@ZU:
Basing on what you say here:

What do you guys think about a Toony, Ford, Dariush, Nerjin team?

At least one of these people is a spy.  I know I'm a rebel, and if we assume Toaster has to be town now (otherwise we've already lost) then that means at least either Ford, Dariush, or Nerjin is a spy.  At least one of them is a rebel because ZU isn't on this team.

The ones not on this team are:
Tiruin
Leafsnail
NQT
ZU
Toaster

Tiruin and Leafsnail both have a 50% chance of being a spy.  And I'd have to pick Tiruin over LS as being a spy.  Both of them are very very very unlikely to both be spies.  But one definitely is.

NQT is a wash.  I don't like how he's acting, but his chance of being a spy is all over the place depending on if we can take LS' word.

ZU is definitely a spy.  Toaster cannot be a spy.

Based on this reasoning we can go a few ways--

We can make these team:
ToonyMan
Toaster
Nerjin
Dariush

or

ToonyMan
Toaster
Nerjin
Captain Ford

Which are dangerous based on what ZU proposed himself.  They'd probably have a 50% chance of passing or worse.

My genuine gut read is going ZU/Ford/Leafsnail right now so the "all-in" bet for me would be:

ToonyMan
Toaster
Nerjin
Dariush

Assuming Toaster is town at least means if ZU's team doesn't go through Toaster can lead us on still, within the best of his ability.