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[Tiruin]

I just find it funny that its becoming a Mafia mindset to impose the idea of which you're most likely to believe - what is more likely to make sense instead of forgetting to press on any other idea at the time. Here, its with lacking evidence. People are randomly guessing scumteams and usually applying the same logic used in Mafia here. A pretty bad way of trying to figure it out, IMO, as scum can easily hide under downvotes/neutrality of stances in their disposition and the only prominent factor in determining people's behavior in relation to their role is by how they post.

Color me worthless in saying they've done well anyway.

tl;dr: Poke at the "You're a spy" more than trying to ask specific questions, Toony.

[ToonyMan]

Why are you talking about the fifth mission anyway? That's about one mission away.

I believe you've misread.  The final mission involves five players, it's in the rules.

If you're going to complain about me not having evidence on you (which is total bullshit), you could at least answer what I said here if you want, possibly, maybe, by chance:

I have no idea how to explain this, but I believe LS is pulling a safety line drop. He picked a fully town team to elongate the game, is what I'm thinking, because those 4 stand clearly in the town side.

Okay:
1. Why would a spy risk an easy win.
2. Why are you confident he picked a fully town team? (it's because you're a spy)

[ToonyMan]

(which is total bullshit)*

Link added.

[Tiruin]

Why are you talking about the fifth mission anyway? That's about one mission away.

I believe you've misread.  The final mission involves five players, it's in the rules.

Yes...and I'm asking "why that specific mission."

If you're going to complain about me not having evidence on you (which is total bullshit), you could at least answer what I said here if you want, possibly, maybe, by chance:

I have no idea how to explain this, but I believe LS is pulling a safety line drop. He picked a fully town team to elongate the game, is what I'm thinking, because those 4 stand clearly in the town side.

Okay:
1. Why would a spy risk an easy win.
2. Why are you confident he picked a fully town team? (it's because you're a spy)

Evidence in the sense that says suspicion, not conclusive Mr. BS.

First point: LS has the majority convinced he's town for reasons circling around gut feelings or how he relates with others. Whatever team he picks, for me, is under suspicion. If there's a spy - they win, case closed, cut communication. If its all town, here's me going along a line which continues communication if in case that idea proves true. Also, while the 'risk an easy win' = shortest possible way to achieve your wincon, the verdict seems set in stone right now. Its being upvoted by the masses, and to tell the truth, I'm just thinking out loud there. No defense in a way that I can peg LS out by that team as I really do see them all as town. (For Dariush, refer to my last post. Also, it would seem really hard to poke him as scum if LS was too, as said in the second mission)

Second point: I'm not confident that he picked a town team. I'm confident in my reads on the people, and wondering why he's picking them - what I can see is that he's also seeing them as town; either because of ruling out who he thinks is 'scum' or...preferably, that explanation only. Most of the people he's tagging is only labeled by him as scum because of mistakes in logic, anyway. They're not leading to a conclusion, and where I see it, why exactly he's picking them over the rest; the rest here, meaning why he thinks those people are scum.

Which wasn't specifically addressed. Suppose me, for example. "I think Tiruin is scum because of his defense of Nerjin." Its using the logic of letting you look into it without defining his reasons. I mean, you can infer that my opinion back there was suspicious, right? What came of it? Nothing but 'You're scum!' accusations instead of a continued conversation.

PPE: link.

I said lacking evidence. I didn't say No evidence :/

[Captain Ford]

I have no idea how to explain this, but I believe LS is pulling a safety line drop. He picked a fully town team to elongate the game, is what I'm thinking, because those 4 stand clearly in the town side.

Wow.

Okay:
1. Why would a spy risk an easy win.
2. Why are you confident he picked a fully town team? (it's because you're a spy)

Because if Leafsnail's team succeeds, Leafsnail himself is likely to become the fifth member on later missions.

It might make a lot of sense if LS thinks a team with a spy is unlikely to pass, and he perceives a rebel team as very likely in the near future.

I can only see that you're up-voting this in the hopes of getting on the last team that requires five players.  Sorry, but if this works out it's gonna be Leafsnail or me.

Or ... both he and Leafsnail are spies, and he's upvoting it in the hopes of getting his scumbuddy on the final team.

[Toaster]

I'm back.


Tiruin:

Alright, both of you. At least hear me out - there was one spy on mission one. Any more than that would lead to rampant confusion. If I was scum, I wouldn't include a buddy in any team I pick (despite my post about 'what-I-would-do-as-scum', any reason added to that line of logic would still be invalid and tiresome to ponder on), or if without me, the least suspicious person. Why do you and LS keep on citing the "I know myself" ploy?

I'm sure you know there was exactly one spy, because it was you.  There's no other way you could know for sure there was just one spy.

Also, I actually -am- upvoting despite my hint back there. I have no idea how to explain this, but I believe LS is pulling a safety line drop. He picked a fully town team to elongate the game, is what I'm thinking, because those 4 stand clearly in the town side [Yes my posts @ Dar saying he's scum were mostly based on his reactions. For this once, I'm going against my intuition which is screaming he's scum on the hope that he's actually town with...a really bad personality of showing it.]. Before anyone tries to denounce this theory - wait for mission end.

This makes about as much sense as a football bat.

Actually, you already calling the team's success is another indicator that you, again, know too much (aka you are scum).


NQT:

I'm not sure if it's gut feels (and whether those feels are misplaced) or just the fact he was on two failing teams in a row but I find LS too inherently suspicious to vote any of his teams. I wanted to hold off saying so in case the knowledge of my vote sways anyone else's vote (thereby giving us less info), but now I think it might be more important to the rebels to know I haven't disappeared for good.

Wave that townie flag!

Ugh. I've mostly been really busy. I don't know how helpful it is giving my reads when most everybody will have voted on the team and I don't feel I could trust LS on principle right now. But look, I can see how I might seem dubious for this. When this vote fails I'll be more engaged in the next discussion.

You sure do.

[Captain Ford]

I can see a possibility of it being Leafsnail, NQT, and ZU but LS would be pulling a trust gambit and that would also mean one of either LS or ZU laid-low during the second failed mission.  Which I don't believe happened.

If I vote for this team, I'm effectively assuming that Leafsnail isn't a spy, because the logic I'm using only works if he isn't. Given Tiruin's incredibly terrible responses just now, I'm ... man, oh man. Tiruin and LS both being spies is a crazy possibility, but not an impossibility.

It wouldn't be a bad strategy for them to have come up with before the game, actually ... they'd be able to bus each other and one of them would come out on top.

...I need more time to think this through.

[Captain Ford]

And wait, why don't you think anyone would lay low?

I can tell you now, if I'd been one of the spies, the first thing I would've said was, "okay, if more than enough of us to sabotage end up on a mission, then the one who is closest to the top of the player list sabotages, and the rest lay low."

If LS is one of the spies, I wouldn't bet against him figuring out something similar.

[Leafsnail]

...I need more time to think this through.

We've already run over the time limit though, and GlyphGryph could end the voting phase at any time.

Also if you think I'm a spy putting through an all rebel team then you should upvote this team and downvote any future teams that include me.  Otherwise you're massively handicapping the town for no reason at all.

[Captain Ford]

GlyphGryph said that weekends will only count as one day. Pretty sure I'm within the time limit.

And yeah, I know that. Tiruin's a spy. His latest failures in logic are pretty astounding. The thing is, unlike Tiruin, I wouldn't trust you to not slip a spy onto the team.

I'm mostly stressing over whether or not Nerjin's the spy.

I downvoted for real this time. 

Uh huh.

...well, let's see. LS, Nerjin, Tiruin, Toony and Toaster have all voted up, haven't they. The team has already passed.

I guess it doesn't really matter how I vote. I couldn't stop this if I wanted to. What disturbs me is that at least one spy has definitely voted for it (all 3 of the people on the first mission have). If there is a spy on the team, then the game's already over unless somebody can be convinced to change their vote.

[Tiruin]

I'm sure you know there was exactly one spy, because it was you.  There's no other way you could know for sure there was just one spy.

No, it wasn't. I'm stating such because I'm the darn leader. There's no other way you could twist that other than to try and assert your baseless point.

Actually, you already calling the team's success is another indicator that you, again, know too much (aka you are scum).

Nope. That's called logically guessing.

Given Tiruin's incredibly terrible responses just now, I'm ... man, oh man. Tiruin and LS both being spies is a crazy possibility, but not an impossibility.

I'm using reverse psychology. Blatant ones, and yet people perceive that as scumminess. Joy, isn't it?

Also. Please. Listen. There. was. One. Spy. I am in no way associated with LS.

And yeah, I know that. Tiruin's a spy. His latest failures in logic are pretty astounding. The thing is, unlike Tiruin, I wouldn't trust you to not slip a spy onto the team.

And you're falling for his trap if the team does succeed. When one person tries to go against the status quo with something against the common belief, she/he is bound to get suspicion.

Then you call it failure in logic, huh.

I guess it doesn't really matter how I vote. I couldn't stop this if I wanted to. What disturbs me is that at least one spy has definitely voted for it (all 3 of the people on the first mission have). If there is a spy on the team, then the game's already over unless somebody can be convinced to change their vote.

Because possibilities are weird, eh?

[Captain Ford]

Then you call it failure in logic, huh.

Dude. You're trying to tell me 7 different players are town. That's not even possible.

[Toaster]

Tiruin:

I'm sure you know there was exactly one spy, because it was you.  There's no other way you could know for sure there was just one spy.

No, it wasn't. I'm stating such because I'm the darn leader. There's no other way you could twist that other than to try and assert your baseless point.

How is that relevant at all?

[Captain Ford]

...I'm voting down. There's too much going on here that conflicts with my reads.

Alright, both of you. At least hear me out - there was one spy on mission one. Any more than that would lead to rampant confusion.

That's interesting, because I presented a set of reads and reasoning that made sense out of both Toaster and Leafsnail being spies.

The fact that you are defeating arguments in your favor is very ... odd.

[Captain Ford]

EBWOP: Ugh. Let me explain that better.

I'm getting the feeling that someone is trying to pull the wool over our eyes, but I'm not sure who. Maybe it's just morning paranoia or whatever.

I would have voted last night when my mind was more on the game, but bay12 was throwing out 504s like candy.

Also, consider: What if ZU and Toaster are spies, and both Tiruin and Leafsnail are rebels? Or maybe Dariush and Toaster? I will be putting some thought into this because it is an interesting possibility.