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[GlyphGryph]

After the mess that was the last mission, the alerted the authorities, the destroyed spray cans, the bees- oh god, the bees- Dariush was put in charge. Perhaps he, at least, could plan a mission with some chance of success, and choose those who could pull it off?

The bickering was long and hard, but finely the majority came to a conclusion. The Rebellion needed a symbol of it's power, and the acquisition of some high explosives was needed if that was going to happen. Of course, high explosives aren't simply sold in the Empire, not to just anyone, so they would have to be stolen from the local armory... His chosen team set out, and the game was on.

Dariush's Proposed Team:
Leafsnail
Dariush
zombie urist
Captain Ford

Up votes:
Toaster
Dariush
Zombie urist
Captain Ford
Leafsnail

Down votes:
notquitethere
Tiruin
Nerjin
ToonyMan

The mission is a go! It is now mission time: All participants, please submit your actions!

[GlyphGryph]

The next meeting is not a pleasant one.

Even now, a day later, the stink of the sewer emenated from the disgraced rebel group. Someone had tipped the depot off to their arrival, and a bunch of roughs were there - they didn't show themselves immediately, preferring instead to video tape the resistance members trying to sneak in unnoticed, before erupting from the shadows to kick their asses, turning three of the four masked would be burglars into a bruised pile of aching before tieing them up, calling the Imperial forces, and then breaking off to try and find the last rebel. Captain Ford, meanwhile, dropped down from the nearby roof, untied his compatriots, and the lot of them slipped into a nearby sewer access, working through it the three miles to safety.

The smell was never going to come out, and the video quickly became a hit on the internet. Their cell was the laughingstock of the rebel world - their pathetic attempt at sneaking by guards who already knew they were there, the feeble attempt at putting up a fight (forget the fact that none of the group has had training in combat, and they were outnumbered two to one), and word had even gotten around about the stench that still clung to them.

Captain Ford stepped to the front of the room. "Okay, everyone. We need to dream big. If we don't pull it off this time, we're done for. And I think I have the perfect team..."

The mission was a failure! A single tip off was enough to ruin your whole night.
There was one sabotage attempt.

Captain Ford is the new Team Leader[/i]

[Tiruin]

I hate to say I told you so but [TAG:INDEFINITE]. Love the flavor though, escalating from a simple case of vandalism/propaganda to sabotage.

Now, see here. One sabotage in both M1 & 2.

M1
Toaster
Leafsnail
Tiruin

M2
Leafsnail
Dariush
zombie urist
Captain Ford

I'm very inclined to believe Leafsnail is a spy for if Dar or the other three guys on the mission were so, one of them would've had to lie low (which, coincidentally, would be LS judging by his cunning if there was another spy in there). On a re-read, I detect nothing indicating he would do such though, but I don't see anything indicating he would go all sabotage the mission too.

Dariush, what made you pick Leafsnail over ToonyMan. I know I see your explanation, but pertinent quotes would suffice in this matter.

[zombie urist]

I'm very inclined to believe Leafsnail is a spy for if Dar or the other three guys on the mission were so, one of them would've haw (which, coincidentally, would be LS judging by his cunning if there was another spy in there). On a re-read, I detect nothing indicating he would do such though, but I don't see anything indicating he would go all sabotage the mission too.

So do you think LS is a spy or not?

[Tiruin]

504's ruined the post - thought I posted.

I'm very inclined to believe Leafsnail is a spy for if Dar or the other three guys on the mission were so, one of them would've haw (which, coincidentally, would be LS judging by his cunning if there was another spy in there). On a re-read, I detect nothing indicating he would do such though, but I don't see anything indicating he would go all sabotage the mission too.

So do you think LS is a spy or not?

What I mean by very inclined is that I do think so, but Leafsnail's wording and how he states his posts make it ambiguous. No, he's not dropping obvious scumtells, but on seeing how his posts relate to Toaster, they're sort of lacking in principle and explanation.

Abrupt. Seemingly, concise. Quick to judge, though. He went on a definitive, poking that I was defending Nerjin, and stated that I'm somehow scum for that without explanation. His reasoning seems off in a way that its specific. Thoroughly specific.

What's your opinion on the matter ZU?

[ToonyMan]

Hmmm so unless the rebels can suddenly play a perfect game we're fucked?  Sounds good.

First Team Proposed by Nerjin (RNG'd):

The proposed team was:
2. Tiruin
3. Deathsword
10. Toaster **This should have actually been me but Nerjin supposedly misread**

The final vote counts layout was:
In favour: 4
Nerjin: Up
Dariush: Up
notquitethere: Up
Tiruin: Up

Against: 6
ToonyMan: Down
Captain Ford: Down
Toaster: Down
Leafsnail: Down
Zombie Urist: Down
Deathsword: Down

Didn't pass

Second Team proposed by Tiruin (largely from what I said):

Tiruin's proposed team was:
Tiruin
Leafsnail
Toaster

The final vote counts layout was:
In favour:
Nerjin: Up
Toonyman: Up
Zombie Urist: Up
notquitethere: Up
Tiruin: Up
Leafsnail: Up
Captain Ford: Up

Against:
Dariush: Down
Toaster: Failed to Vote. Effective Vote: Down

Passed and the mission failed with one sabotage

Third team was proposed by Dariush (agreed with Toaster and Leafsnail besides adding me instead of LS):

Dariush's Proposed Team:
Leafsnail
Dariush
zombie urist
Captain Ford

Up votes:
Toaster
Dariush
Zombie urist
Captain Ford
Leafsnail

Down votes:
notquitethere
Tiruin
Nerjin
ToonyMan

Also passed and the mission failed with one sabotage.


The first team organized is interesting because we know for a fact that Deathsword is a spy.  That would put suspicions on Nerjin, Dariush, NQT, and Tiruin for upvoting.  With one of Tiruin/Toaster/Leafsnail being a spy the only one of those three that up-voted was Tiruin who said he was okay with the team because he was on it and wanted to get things going.

For the second team organized it was anonymously up-voted except for Dariush, and he was right.  This gives him town points at least.  As for the team itself, Tiruin pretty much did exactly as I said (I never told him exactly who to pick besides himself, Toaster and Leafsnail just happened to coincide with who my two picks would have been back then as well) and nobody disagreed except Dariush.

I really wish Dariush didn't put Leafsnail in the second mission to go off, Leafsnail was totally okay with putting me in for him.  Of course if Leafsnail isn't that spy the mission would have failed regardless if I went.

For the third team organized it was like the first team except backwards.  So I would say this lightens a bit off NQT, Tiruin, Nerjin, and myself vote-wise at least.  Notice that this is identical to the first team except Dariush and me have swapped places.  It also almost completely cancels out each other.

Oh, and before we start the fun part.  Zombie Urist and Captain Ford did numbers of their own, regarding whether bring someone from the first failed mission is good percentage-wise or not.  Zombie Urist says we should, while Captain Ford says we shouldn't (along with NQT a bit earlier sort of).  That's a discrepancy, going to talk this out you two?  Both agreed to the newest team anyway (as well as being on it!), so this puts contrary points in Ford's mouth.  Don't even get me started about Dariush saying he down-voted his team when he clearly did not, maybe I read that wrong.

Here comes the fun part, CORRECT VOTING FRACTIONS/PERCENTAGES:

Deathsword only voted once and he was right to downvote, although he's a confirmed spy so this shows you can't trust these numbers completely but they're a nice guide.  Especially over time, anyway--

The 66%ers
ToonyMan - right 2/3 (first/third)

The 33%ers
Nerjin - right 1/3 (third)
Tiruin - right 1/3 (third)
Dariush - right 1/3 (second)
Captain - right 1/3 (first)
Leafsnail - right 1/3 (first)
notquitethere - right 1/3 (third)
Zombie Urist - right 1/3 (first)
Toaster - right 1/3 (first)  [author's note: Toaster said he would have up-voted the second mission but flubbed it so I'll count it as so]

...Wow, okay I thought it would be a bit better than that...I can feel a little happier about myself.

Actually on that note the three people who haven't gone on a mission now are ToonyMan, Nerjin, and NQT.  For this mission we have to bring four people (and I believe one sabotage is enough for GAME OVER) so uuuh...maybe the game is designed for the spies?  If I was Captain Ford I would pick myself, ToonyMan, prooobably Toaster, and then someone from the newest team that you feel is most town, that way we have more than a 50% of getting one successful mission, I hope?  I didn't do any math for that.  I mean I guess you could pick Nerjin or NQT as the last guy but that feels like flipping a coin of doom.

[Nerjin]

Don't have a lot of time for this right now, more later [if I can] So I just want to address 2 things.

1) Dariush was being sarcastic when he said he down voted his own team.

2)

I didn't do any math for that.  I mean I guess you could pick Nerjin or NQT as the last guy but that feels like flipping a coin of doom.

Don't pick me or NQT. NQT seems scummy to me and I seem scummy to everyone else. The mission'll get downvoted by everyone for me. As for NQT I'd downvote it. So... I guess someone else.

[Leafsnail]

From the new information obtained:

There are 1 or 2 spies among the following players:
Tiruin
Toaster

There are 1 or 2 spies among the following players:
zombie urist
Dariush
Captain Ford

There are 0 or 1 spies among the following players:
ToonyMan
NQT
Nerjin

This is from my perspective.  From everyone else's there's also the possibility "Leafsnail is a spy" with no further information obtainable.

I still think Nerjin is a spy.  His "mistake" over accidentally thinking he had a power role really isn't believable.  That changes it to

Nerjin is a spy.

1 spy exists among the following players:
Tiruin
Toaster

1 spy exists among the following players:
Dariush
zombie urist
Captain Ford

The following players are rebels:
ToonyMan
NQT

I would therefore accept ToonyMan and NQT on teams.  I still think Tiruin is probably scum, and although his downvote on yesterday's mission was strange Captain Ford was promising to run the same team minus me and plus ToonyMan - so the spy among Dariush/ZU/CF would still be on it.  That would make Toaster a rebel - I'd accept him on the mission too.

The final spy is somewhat harder.  I still think this looks like town Dariush, but between the other two I'm not so sure anymore.  I guess I might have been wrong to reverse my initial impression of Captain Ford, but ZU has been mainly staying below my radar so I need to give him a better look.

[Dariush]

Don't even get me started about Dariush saying he down-voted his team when he clearly did not, maybe I read that wrong.

Oh god you're so unimaginably stupid. I don't have any words for such degree of stupidity anymore.

snip

This information is correct if and only if you're a rebel, which we don't know for a fact. If you're a spy (and I agree about Nerjin regardless of your alignment), that changes it to:
0-1 among Tir and Toaster;
0-1 among ZU and Ford;
...0-1 among NQT and Toony.

Shit. However much each Toony's post looks like a blinking 'I AM SCUM' neon sign, I have no choice but to agree that he's pretty much the likeliest to be a rebel merely by the process of elimination. :-/

[Leafsnail]

No.  If I'm a spy then it changes to:

Leafsnail is a spy

There are 2 spies among the following players:
Nerjin
Tiruin
Dariush
Captain Ford
notquitethere
Zombie Urist
Toaster
ToonyMan

[Leafsnail]

Or 1 spy among Tiruin, Dariush, Captain Ford, notquitethere, Zombie Urist, Toaster, ToonyMan if you think Nerjin is a spy.

[ToonyMan]

Shit. However much each Toony's post looks like a blinking 'I AM SCUM' neon sign, I have no choice but to agree that he's pretty much the likeliest to be a rebel merely by the process of elimination. :-/

Shocking, right?  A multitude of players think I'm town (Ford/Leafsnail/Toaster), or don't think I'm scum (Zombie), or haven't stated anything (Tiruin/NQT) to the best of my knowledge.  Nerjin probably thinks I'm a spy though, and I know how much you trust him.

[Tiruin]

I didn't mention that I think you're town? :/

Well, I do and why is because you're approaching this whole ordeal systematically. If I may insert a meta note, you're not attacking others because of their case, but are looking into it with a degree of suspicion that labels you as trying to sincerely figure it out (though always not understanding me? Yeah that hurts.)

Anywho, I believe whatever we pick, its a 6vs3 ratio. I know I'm not scum, and damned be I if I go against what I proposed earlier. I don't know how to prove this despite anything else everyone has said. The only thread I have is the mission I proposed. (This is why I keep on hinting the 1 sabotage and Toaster over Leafsnail)

Take in the reason I'm not scum here:

> Toaster is scum but would be vague to find out in the second mission. If so, Leafsnail is innocent and it is either one of Dariush/zombie urist/Captain Ford, the latter two I have only a nebulous viewpoint on whether they are spy or not, Dariush takes it.
> LS is scum, and Dariush is his buddy (seemingly improbable, making Dar town due to his choice of pick). Other than reasons I mentioned earlier, Dariush picked LS because he believed he was more towny than anyone else - namely Toony, NQT and Nerjin. It would be easier to solve this is no variables are reproduced, but it wasn't.

If Dariush and LS are both town, then it goes to a wholly new tangent. Toaster is scum, along with either ZU or Ford.

All these examples leave only one or no choice of scum left. The former is more reasonable.

And duh, I downvoted. How much does that matter. I upvoted on the first mission because, hey, I knew I was town and the only other two suspects are Toaster and Leafsnail. Fun thing is, the mission ended in one sabotage - indicating one darn spy. Toaster was acting on a one-over-the-other choice of seeing who is scum; LS acted on a what-the-hell-this-person-is-gutsy option. Thereby leading to me singling him out for his...illogical idea, being quick to denounce me.

But hell, I give up. I can't even convince anyone I'm town and those who say I'm scum only have weak reasons behind them. It's like, due to the lack of roleflip//Mafia-styled hunting or pressuring, three people have danced the choices in circles to get at least one of them into each and every team!

Have fun picking the teams Ford.

[notquitethere]

Scum have the overwhelming advantage in this game. I hope to play this mode again but with town having some power roles. I'm having some pretty severe technical problems at my end (posting from phone right now). Hopefully, my pc will be working in the next day and I can give this thread and others my fuller attention.

[zombie urist]

From the second team, I think its probably Ford or LS who are the spies. If LS is a spy, then that kinda clears Tiruin, though its not impossible that he included another spy. Though if Ford is the spy, then the team he makes will have to be rejected.

But hell, I give up. I can't even convince anyone I'm town and those who say I'm scum only have weak reasons behind them. It's like, due to the lack of roleflip//Mafia-styled hunting or pressuring, three people have danced the choices in circles to get at least one of them into each and every team!

So stop trying to convince ppl you're town and starting convincing them of who's scum. 

Ford's numbers are actually correct (AFAIK). My numbers assumed there was only one scum on the first mission, which I no longer think is necessarily a safe assumption.