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[Tiruin]

Tbh, you're leaning town with me despite your mistakes - sure, they seem scummy but I...err, can detect some sort of sincerity in them (except that one where you pledged yer honor and whatnot. That was just plain bad, really. You don't do those kinds of things as it compromises trust in future games - meta or not - or just makes it seem like you're really desperate and have no other way in persuading others).

Its my intuition speaking that you're town, but I don't think it really matters that much. I know I am and are singled out, you're more so because of stuff that I'm currently too tired to refresh myself with. Crashing in a few, if I'm using the terminology correct for dead tired.

Anyway, that's just a label most attribute to being town, like lying is as to scum. Its all a situational basis. Town can lie - but depending on the situation, just like admitting mistakes and sticking up for it despite being labelled as someone to be disbelieved. Its all situational. There are no hard rules (in Mafia), mainly here on an open conversation.

Still, its not that much stacked, y'know. Scum just have good...or particularly savvy persuaders. Or...given my list of suspects and who suspect me, just people who have been operating under the ideas of Mafia too much to try to adjust their viewpoints.

Anyway, enough of my rambling. The suspect list posted down reflects mostly everyone (but the spies) being confused and having common picks which are attributed to the common scum label. Hard enough to quantify, I fear that those can only be reasoned with via 'roleflip' or any of the other methods in proving.

Like Toaster, I guess I can't persuade him anymore. Its death by confirmation or what that fallacy was - just very hard to explain at the moment because of all those other variables putting themselves in which seem, or don't seem to be trivial and important currently. [This and the lack of body language which exists in the real life game, but its fun nonetheless seeing as how people talk via chat alone and try to see the feelings within them ]

Anywhooo

Who knows, Toaster might select an all-rebel team by fluke and then we might still win this. I hope so.

Huh? Toaster is confirmed town by now (or a really good rebel but that'll just cause me more headaches than I'm having [>1, actually]). Why the possibility there? And the following doubt? And the doubt after the doubt with the hope?

I don't get how this came to be.

[Dariush]

Huh? Toaster is confirmed town by now (or a really good rebel)

wat

[Tiruin]

That was supposed to be spy. I was thining rebel because of my mind stuck on the confirmed town thing. Delay in thought.

[Dariush]

Still, wat

Why would a spy, regardless of his proficiency, not just dump everything and instahammer a team with spies?

[Tiruin]

Thats why I putin the more headaches part. The only reasonable way scum would keep this up is to either gloat, to poke at the town, to elongate this game, or...all those other reasons than achieving wincon first.

Also that was me poking at NQT's statement. I'm reading it as NQT somewhat suspects toaster because of how he worded

Who knows, Toaster might select an all-rebel team by fluke and then we might still win this. I hope so.

still, just consider me asking that and no more. Currently can't post until hours later. Thanks.

[notquitethere]

That wasn't meant as a note of suspicion towards Toaster, but more an indication that it is very possible that Toaster may accidentally put forward a team with a spy on it, in part perhaps due to thinking certain rebel players are spies.

[ToonyMan]

I would say go with Toony/Toaster/Dariush/Ford.  It seems the safest choice.

Other ballsy choices:
Toony/Toaster/Leafsnail/Ford (I like this one because Dariush isn't on it and I really don't think he deserves to be on the team for victory if he's a rebel)
Toony/Toaster/Dariush/Leafsnail

Basically, any team without ZU, NQT, Nerjin, or Tiruin seems okay with me.  I can't decide whether NQT or Nerjin is a spy, but that's the whole reason I didn't want the previous team to go through.

I highly doubt Tiruin and LS are both spies, since that makes no sense.  So it would make more sense if LS is actually town (which would make me happy because that would mean Dariush was completely wrong).

Ford is almost certainly a rebel and if he somehow was a spy I can laugh at how silly this game has been.

[ToonyMan]

@Toaster:
Why are you fairly confident in a town Dariush read?

[Nerjin]

@Toony
Why are you fairly confident on your LS town read?

Why are you fairly confident on your Tiruin scum read?

[ToonyMan]

@Toony
Why are you fairly confident on your LS town read?
Why are you fairly confident on your Tiruin scum read?

Vote Count for the proposed team:
Captain Ford
ToonyMan
notquitethere
Nerjin

Up
notquitethere
Toonyman
Tiruin
zombie urist

Down
Dariush
Nerjin
Toaster
leafsnail
Captain Ford

The Team has been rejected. Leafsnail is now the new team leader.

It's the same reason Leafsnail started thinking you were town, but LS has the advantage of definitely not being scum if Tiruin is mafia.  And Tiruin is most certainly mafia with Toaster confirmed and LS' vote right here.

This also means that out of Ford/Toony/Nerjin/NQT at least one of them is a spy.  Which is perfectly in line with my reasoning.  Nerjin or NQT.  Nerjin or NQT, rather not have either.

[Nerjin]

@Toony
Why are you fairly confident on your LS town read?
Why are you fairly confident on your Tiruin scum read?

Vote Count for the proposed team:
Captain Ford
ToonyMan
notquitethere
Nerjin

Up
notquitethere
Toonyman
Tiruin
zombie urist

Down
Dariush
Nerjin
Toaster
leafsnail
Captain Ford

The Team has been rejected. Leafsnail is now the new team leader.

It's the same reason Leafsnail started thinking you were town, but LS has the advantage of definitely not being scum if Tiruin is mafia.  And Tiruin is most certainly mafia with Toaster confirmed and LS' vote right here.

This also means that out of Ford/Toony/Nerjin/NQT at least one of them is a spy.  Which is perfectly in line with my reasoning.  Nerjin or NQT.  Nerjin or NQT, rather not have either.

So you voted down because you thought NQT was spy. I voted down because I think NQT is spy. LS voted down because he thought NQT was spy [IIRC]

Therefore you think LS is town because he voted down the team that would have won him the game if NQT was spy. You think I am scum despite me voting down the team that would have won me the game if I were spy?

[ToonyMan]

Yep, it's safer that way.  I know LS was talking about that and why he still up-voted ZU's team, but I don't think the spies are coordinated masterminds.  It's certainly more likely NQT is a spy, but he's been up-voting almost every single team (like Tiruin).  It's quite possible you voted down without realizing your partners were going for it along with oblivious NQT and me.

This is why I'm asking Toaster about his Dariush read, since Dariush qualifies that same way you do in this case.

I'd like to remove any possibilities of the town losing this.

[ToonyMan]

Actually more interestingly, why did you end up down-voting ZU's team after my words?  That would imply you thought either myself, Toaster, or Ford is a spy at least.  And I can't think of anybody you could think was a spy in this group but me, however you don't seem to be pursuing that thread of reasoning.

[Toaster]

Toony:  I think this post by Dariush is extremely townie.  I just don't see scum making that sort of doublecheck, especially given that scum would already know that there was a scum on the team proposed.

I'll nod to your paranoia, though, and go reread back on Dariush some.

[Nerjin]

An unexpected wave of work hits. :O


Toony
Ford
Toaster
Nerjin

... Surprisingly acceptable. I'd rather Dariush over Ford but... I can accept this team. -snip-

As I said I didn't trust Ford as much as I could but I felt somewhat confident in the team's town-ness despite the scum organizer. That is until Toaster pointed this out.

Busy week and stuff.

IMO I think the spies are LS, Toony, and Toaster. I've said this before. Thus I don't want to default the choice to Toaster.

Ford's last few posts have been full of wtf. Ford: please explain your final decision and your decisions leading up to it.

There's no way I'm voting up a team with both Nerjin and NQT.

He basically said he disagreed with the team, then put it up as a possibility.

A small note on Toaster: I still don't like the way he holds me scum for... reasons... but I can understand his logic enough that I feel confident he's town. I also think that you, Toony, are town.