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[ToonyMan]

ToonyMan: Now why is that? Just because I suspect people of being spies I can't talk with them about their suspicions? What's wrong with looking for confirmation or investigating alternatives?
Sheesh. It's like I'm committing some kind of crime for letting you see my uncertainty, like I'm being indecent or something. "Put some clothes on Ford!" "But Toony, you're the one who asked me to take them off in the first place!"

You're being an emotional mess and I think you're just mad at yourself for screwing up.

[Nerjin]

"Put some clothes on Ford!" "But Toony, you're the one who asked me to take them off in the first place!"

This tends to be the sort of behavior people do not condone. Did you at least buy Ford dinner and movie first Toony? Otherwise it's bad manners.

Seriously though...

Nerjin: Because I want to see where this goes.

What? An essentially confirmed spy... See where this goes? Could you be more specific? I think I'm misunderstanding you.

[Captain Ford]

ToonyMan: Now why is that? Just because I suspect people of being spies I can't talk with them about their suspicions? What's wrong with looking for confirmation or investigating alternatives?
Sheesh. It's like I'm committing some kind of crime for letting you see my uncertainty, like I'm being indecent or something. "Put some clothes on Ford!" "But Toony, you're the one who asked me to take them off in the first place!"

You're being an emotional mess and I think you're just mad at yourself for screwing up.

Wow. The honest truth. I guess I am kind of a mess.

It seems to happen everytime I end up in an "almost definitely town" scenario. Suddenly, I'm not afraid anymore. It's kind of like a free pass to be a dick, except instead of a dick, I turn into an emotional wreck.

Although that right there was me being a dick.

Nerjin: Well, until he proposes a team, I don't really have anything else to do.

The time I have for playing this game has pretty much evaporated and -- oh hey, my guest's here. Gotta go. The dungeon calls!

[Leafsnail]

Captain Ford: you need to stop second guessing yourself so much.  Your current streak of randomly throwing out possible spy teams will just cause you to downvote everything.

I'll upvote a ZU team if it doesn't have spies on it.  He won't gain any trust from me so I don't think it's a problem.

[notquitethere]

What do you guys think about a Toony, Ford, Dariush, Nerjin team?

I'm kinda nervous how Tiruin's been like "pick Toaster" in every post so far.

As far-fectched as it may seem, I'm beginning to wonder if a Tiruin/Toaster/LS team is possible.

Toony - ok. My gut says 'Don't trust him', but my head says 'That's only because he's been on your case'.
Ford - I went from thinking he was definitely town, to wondering whether he was tricksome scum winning me over with the beauty of logical analysis. OK..
Dariush - I went from thinking Dariush couldn't possibly be a spy, to thinking Dariush is certainly a spy, and now I'm in a state of quantum uncertainty
Nerjin - Nerjin has the brains for this team to succeed! Actually, I don't really have a Nerjin read.

I'm not convinced everyone on the team is town, so I probably won't upvote and this is the crucial mission.

My advice: replace someone other than Ford for me, as everyone should be pretty certain I'm not a spy, as I will detail below:

• I pledged my honour that I am town. No one else has done this.
• I put forward a team that everybody knew would fail. If I was a spy, I'd have a strong incentive to put forward a winning team that nevertheless had scum on it.
• I have 100% vote coherence with Tiruin, a suspected spy. No spy would go out of their way to point that out.
• I created a list detailing why I cannot be a spy, something no spy would ever do because it looks too much like something you would think a spy would do, though in fact no spy ever would.

[Nerjin]

• I pledged my honour that I am town. No one else has done this.
• I put forward a team that everybody knew would fail. If I was a spy, I'd have a strong incentive to put forward a winning team that nevertheless had scum on it.
• I have 100% vote coherence with Tiruin, a suspected spy. No spy would go out of their way to point that out.
• I created a list detailing why I cannot be a spy, something no spy would ever do because it looks too much like something you would think a spy would do, though in fact no spy ever would.

1. Means absolutely nothing.
2. That just means that you put fucked up your team selection for no real reason. Therefore you're either a spy or a worthless town.
3. Neither would anyone else... I fail to see how pointing out moderate coincidences with suspected spies means anything. I could link myself to EVERY player. It wouldn't mean a damn thing.
4. I am not a spy because I am not a spy is what the fourth point of your list is.

as an added bonus I'll include some more thoughts.

5. A lot of what you say makes little to no sense logically and is pretty... out there with regards to relevance.
6.You lack definitive reads on 3/4 of the team. No wait... The entire team and yet you're making suggestions? This lead me to...
7. You're a spy, and a bad one at that. Come back with something that is a little more solid and then we'll talk.

[Toaster]

I think a Tiruin/Leaf team is highly unlikely and, as I said, I read Tiruin scum way over Leaf at this point.  This leads to ZU being a strong second scum choice based on his reversed vote and his presence on the second mission.  I'm still a bit torn on the third between NQT and Nerjin, so I'd rather not see either of them go.


NQT:

• I pledged my honour that I am town. No one else has done this.
• I put forward a team that everybody knew would fail. If I was a spy, I'd have a strong incentive to put forward a winning team that nevertheless had scum on it.
• I have 100% vote coherence with Tiruin, a suspected spy. No spy would go out of their way to point that out.
• I created a list detailing why I cannot be a spy, something no spy would ever do because it looks too much like something you would think a spy would do, though in fact no spy ever would.

For the record, nothing on this list convinces me of anything at all.


Nerjin:

7. You're a spy, and a bad one at that. Come back with something that is a little more solid and then we'll talk.

If he's a spy, what are you expecting him to come back with?

ZU:

What do you guys think about a Toony, Ford, Dariush, Nerjin team?

I'd rather not send Nerjin.

[Nerjin]

I'd rather not send Nerjin.

Out of curiosity is there any reason why? I'm assuming your team is gonna just go through so not much I can do to stop you.

[Toaster]

Residual distrust over the D1 issues, mostly, but also you're another possible scum besides NQT.  I'm leaning more and more town on you, but still- why send someone you have doubts of when there's someone you trust more right there and ready to go?

[Nerjin]

The whole I didn't role-claim bit? ... Okay... I may not agree with your evidence but I can agree with your "Don't send someone you're not sure about." bit.

[ToonyMan]

@Toaster:

My genuine gut read is going ZU/Ford/Leafsnail right now so the "all-in" bet for me would be:
ToonyMan
Toaster
Nerjin
Dariush

I would definitely keep out Tiruin and Leafsnail to be on the safe side.  The problem begins with your refusal of Nerjin, we would have very little choice but to swap Nerjin with Captain Ford with what we have left.  In fact, keeping Nerjin and Dariush in has already worried me because of ZU's proposed team.  I know he could just be screwing with us and it won't matter until he red texts a team (which will again be a mess), but at the very least you will definitely want to keep ToonyMan and Toaster in this team.

For the next two it's tricky, you will never let Tiruin go through so we can't rely on a 50/50 flip there with Leafsnail.  And I don't want to rely on that either.  So Tiruin and Leafsnail are out.

The second team that went and failed was Leafsnail/Dariush/Zombie Urist/Captain Ford.  If we remove Leafsnail from what we said before and remove Zombie Urist for being a spy we leave Dariush and Captain Ford.  We can bring both for the last, but I'd really prefer not to.  And with my doubts on how damn washy Ford has been it's easier to pick Dariush who seems to be having a particularly poor town game, but a town game nonetheless.

And the remaining choices leave Nerjin and NQT.  And that's how I default to Nerjin, because holy hell NQT's game has been shoddy.  I'll probably slap myself if Nerjin is a spy because of what I've done to him, but I'd slap myself too if I somehow let NQT through and he very likely revealed himself as a spy.

If you have any negotiations that would be good.  I have to assume you're definitely a rebel for this game to proceed after all. 

[Captain Ford]

Captain Ford: you need to stop second guessing yourself so much.  Your current streak of randomly throwing out possible spy teams will just cause you to downvote everything.

I'll upvote a ZU team if it doesn't have spies on it.  He won't gain any trust from me so I don't think it's a problem.

Eh? I think you're getting the wrong idea. I'm saying "what if", not "I changed my mind".

I have more or less concluded how I'm going to vote. At this point I'm just poking at things out of morbid curiosity.

Toony: Eh? You actually think I'm a spy now? All right, I'll cut the crazy crap then.

I said before that I'd upvote Leafsnail's team if it was put up again. That hasn't changed. I've made my decision, and now I'm just poking around.

I guess I didn't think about how what I was saying would affect your opinion of me. I've been throwing out scumteams because I thought they were interesting ... but I didn't put in the time to explain why I thought they were interesting, so I can see why you see me as being all over the place.

I'm like the kid who's finished his class project and is looking for all the ways he can pervert it out of sheer boredom.

But I really don't want to hamstring you guys by making you leave me out of the team. Ugh. Like we need that at this stage, so I'll keep that stuff to myself from now on.

And yeah, that's WIFOM, but fuck it. We all know why you kept putting me on teams, and that hasn't changed. The only thing that's changed is that I'm no longer unemployed and I'm not putting out well-reasoned, thorough, spent-8-hours-working-on-this posts.

Blegh.

And yes, please, put me on that team in place of Nerjin. I'm more confident in Toony than Nerjin.

[Toaster]

I could vote Leaf's team, but I'd like to swap out Nerjin for Toony.

[ToonyMan]

@Captain Ford:
It's highly unlikely you're a spy since you gave away the win IF that team you made (Captain Ford/ToonyMan/Nerjin/NQT) actually had a spy in it.  This is of course impossible, that's why Leafsnail boasted you as almost completely confirmed town back then (while also lampooning ZU as definite spy and Nerjin as likely town).

I'm just kind of annoyed how much you've been screwing us over lately *cough Leafsnail's team cough*.

I could vote Leaf's team, but I'd like to swap out Nerjin for Toony.

Okay.

[ToonyMan]

That first sentence feels like a brain teaser, let me rephrase:

If Captain Ford is a spy that means the team they made (Ford/Toony/Nerjin/NQT) would have at least one spy on it, being Ford themselves.  Voting that team down meant that Ford gave their win away quite willingly which makes no sense.

If Captain Ford is a spy that means the team they made (Ford/Toony/Nerjin/NQT) could have at most two spies from my perspective.  Only myself and NQT actually up-voted this team which is why purely statistically our scumminess is pretty much completely swappable here.  Though Toaster is right in trusting me more, even more than Nerjin.