Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Author Topic: GUIDE: How to dam/drain a 4 tile wide river/brook without digging  (Read 6394 times)

Cerbsen

  • Bay Watcher
  • c is for butcher
    • View Profile


GUIDE: How to dam/drain a 4 tile wide river/brook without digging




Step 1 - Determine direction of water flow
  • Check the outmost tiles of both ends of the river/brook.
  • One end has 7/7 Water (enters map), the other x/7 (flows off map).
Spoiler (click to show/hide)


Step 2 - Build pumpfloor
  • Find 4 adjacent water tites (in case the river bends) and build a 2x4 floor one tile above (against the water flow).
Spoiler (click to show/hide)


Step 3 - The wall and the power generator
  • Build a wall to avoid water spreading and more fps loss than necessary, (top).
  • then build one gear assembly and one water wheel in between the wall and the edge of the map (bottom).
  • (With a brook you have to channel the 3 water wheel tiles first to make it work)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)


Step 4 - The pumps and the fps drop
  • Build 4 pumps draining the river against the flow... (top)
  • ...and connect them with axles and gear assemblys to the water wheel (middle).
  • Watch the river/brook drain and fps drop by 50%.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)


Step 5 - Damming the river
  • Do the same as stated above using 4 pumps pumping in the direction the river flows,
    with 7-8 tiles space in between them and the build ones. (top)
  • In about one minute the water level drops to 1/7, so you can start to build floodgates/1x4bridge/walls. (bottom)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)


Final Step - Shut down pumps
  • With the floodgates build, you can now remove the pumps/wheels/etc.
  • Fps will go back to normal immediately.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It takes about one season for a 4x4 map river to drain after that.


Bonus - Get rid of that nasty giant sponge
Spoiler (click to show/hide)


Materials needed:
  • ~15 logs
  • ~60 stone blocks
  • 6 Mechanisms
  • 8 enormous corkscrews
  • 8 pipe sections
  • (4 floodgates)


Straight river design:
Code: [Select]
, , , X = = X = = = = = X = = = = = = X , , , , , , ,
, , , = , , = ▓ ▓ ▓ ▓ ▓ = , , , , , , = ▓ ▓ ▓ ▓ ▓ , , ,
~ ~ [ | ] [ | ] ~ ~ ~ % % ~ ░ ░ ░ ░ ~ % % ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ % % ~ ░ ░ ░ ░ ~ % % ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ % % ~ ░ ░ ░ ░ ~ % % ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ % % ~ ░ ░ ░ ░ ~ % % ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
, , , , , , , ▓ ▓ ▓ ▓ ▓ , , , , , , , , ▓ ▓ ▓ ▓ ▓ , , ,


, ground 15 logs
~ water 44 blocks (28 brook)
X gear assembly 3 mechanisms
= axle 8 enormous corkscrews
wall 8 pipe sections
% % pump (on floor if river) -----------------------
[ | ] water wheel 31 logs
(0-1/7 water) 14 stone (7 brook)
« Last Edit: January 26, 2013, 08:08:09 am by Cerbsen »
Logged

FearfulJesuit

  • Bay Watcher
  • True neoliberalism has never been tried
    • View Profile
Re: GUIDE: How to dam/drain a river/brook without digging
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2013, 02:47:47 pm »

That is an unbelievably pointless, long-winded, dangerous and complex way to drain a river. I congratulate you.
Logged


@Footjob, you can microwave most grains I've tried pretty easily through the microwave, even if they aren't packaged for it.

Loud Whispers

  • Bay Watcher
  • They said we have to aim higher, so we dug deeper.
    • View Profile
    • I APPLAUD YOU SIRRAH
Re: GUIDE: How to dam/drain a river/brook without digging
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2013, 02:54:04 pm »

This is one of those instances when if all fails, magma.

Itnetlolor

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
    • Steam ID
Re: GUIDE: How to dam/drain a river/brook without digging
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2013, 02:59:46 pm »

Alternatively, instead of floodgates, wouldn't a more efficient/cheaper approach also be to build a drawbridge instead? Saves on materials and mechanisms and more efficient lever assignments.

4 floodgates cost 4 stones (or wood/metal) + 8 stone mechanisms for linking
4+8=12 stones used

compared to

1 4-wide/1-long drawbridge (2 bars/blocks instead of whole stones (1 stone overall makes 4 stone bars/blocks)), and 2 stone mechanisms for linking.
1(or .5)+2=3 or (2.5) stones used

Cheaper and quicker to build and setup; although a caveat would be that if the bridge/wall breaks, it all goes down, instead of piece by piece with the floodgates; provided a [BUILDING_DESTROYER] swims to them to attack; unlikely that would be. Just as well, when building it, it starts off built down (open), so you have to link and trigger ASAP if you want it up (closed); unlike floodgates that start closed, and have to be linked and triggered to open up.

EDIT:
Oh yeah, and advantage of the bridge-wall Super-Floodgate method is also that you can build it all at once, regardless of width (10-wide maximum per-section, however), unlike floodgates that are 1-by-1. Meaning, provided you can slow down a wider river with the same setup extended, you can apply these to wider rivers overall. Just hope you have the material to get this all taken care of. Someone up to testing this method?

EDIT EDIT:
Another method came to mind for wider rivers, but to ease up on the building, build breakers (like 3x3) halfway and quarterway across the wide river (+4 width), and then sub-breakers (1x1) combing between the breakers to further lower the pressure/water flow during construction of the project itself (if you intend to build an actual (hydro-powerplant) dam, and not just a river wall). Provided it's 1-Z deep, this shouldn't be too much trouble, otherwise (for rivers deeper than 1-Z), you may have to resort to tiered pumping in order to build them into the water and upward. But then comes the next challenge of dis-assembly if/when the time comes.

It wouldn't hurt to invest some swimming skill into some brave dwarves to get to assembly/dis-assembly. They're not as scared of a little water as other dwarves would. As of now, my idea sounds good on paper. I have yet to actually test the breakers method out yet, but I know drawbridges work very well as super-floodgates, and are overall cheaper and easier to build, and can even reach the map's edge.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2013, 03:22:47 pm by Itnetlolor »
Logged

i2amroy

  • Bay Watcher
  • Cats, ruling the world one dwarf at a time
    • View Profile
Re: GUIDE: How to dam/drain a river/brook without digging
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2013, 03:42:41 pm »

This is one of those instances when if all fails, magma.
Surprisingly with minecarts magma is actually one of the easiest ways to dam a river now. (Just fill the minecarts with magma and then dump then in a line across the river to create a dam.
Logged
Quote from: PTTG
It would be brutally difficult and probably won't work. In other words, it's absolutely dwarven!
Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead - A fun zombie survival rougelike that I'm dev-ing for.

krenshala

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: GUIDE: How to dam/drain a river/brook without digging
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2013, 04:12:12 pm »

Personally, I like to have the pumps push the water downstream.  The requirement for that is to widen your pump platform another tile or two so the water doesn't drop right where the workers are at.  I think the pumping upstream is probably the better way to do it, however. ;)

One thing to remember that isn't really mentioned here, is that you will need to put a floor on the z-level just above your floodgates if you plan to use it as a walkway.  I believe this is also required if you are building a multi-z-level floodgate array, though I haven't personally tried this.
Logged
Quote from: Haspen
Quote from: phoenixuk
Zepave Dawnhogs the Butterfly of Vales the Marsh Titan ... was taken out by a single novice axedwarf and his pet war kitten. Long Live Domas Etasastesh Adilloram, slayer of the snow butterfly!
Doesn't quite have the ring of heroics to it...
Mother: "...and after the evil snow butterfly was defeated, Domas and his kitten lived happily ever after!"
Kids: "Yaaaay!"

Itnetlolor

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
    • Steam ID
Re: GUIDE: How to dam/drain a river/brook without digging
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2013, 05:15:14 pm »

Personally, I like to have the pumps push the water downstream.  The requirement for that is to widen your pump platform another tile or two so the water doesn't drop right where the workers are at.  I think the pumping upstream is probably the better way to do it, however. ;)

One thing to remember that isn't really mentioned here, is that you will need to put a floor on the z-level just above your floodgates if you plan to use it as a walkway.  I believe this is also required if you are building a multi-z-level floodgate array, though I haven't personally tried this.
Yeah, I forgot to mention that where the breakers and such are concerned, building the super-floodgates on them is highly advised, or else they won't work. It's one of those things about drawbridges. They require a solid support to rest on. At least a 1x1 surface. Having a stepped grid for the super-floodgates to be built on (Like this ,',',', except vertically, and with single-tile walls, and each stepped-column placed 9-to-18-tiles apart from each other (so both ends of the 1x10 drawbridges can meet end-to-end, or clasp together like fingers of two hands gripping each other); each Z of the semi-independent walls should be able to support each other, and allow for a up/down staircase to function behind them as a form of scaffolding) should render multi-Z deep water to be dammable, and simplify the construction process, provided you anchor the Super-Floodgates on each wall block up the stepping. The breakers can also be spaced apart wider if you apply it that way too, I believe. As for building it downward, if you intend to disassemble the rigging to make it, I suggest you build the majority of the stuff in the soon-to-be-dry grounds so when you have a functional dam established, you can take apart the structure without compromising the function, and allowing room for more aesthetics and functions and maybe an infrastructure to be built on or around it. It should hopefully work regardless of scale, and should also be able to function as a way of making dry grounds for ocean/lake construction work; provided ample supply of materials to pull it off; power and construction-wise. You may need a quarry staging area for material input, and if on a beach, a good source of wood or trade for it; unless you can breach a cavern.

For open-water (ocean/lake) constructions, just repeat these steps over a perimeter of your choosing one wall at a time. But I suggest being modular about it for efficiency and FPS reasons. Guarantee touching the ground in one 10x10/8x8 area before you work on the others (branching from the point of initialization/origin). So you can spare some FPS, and be able to claim some ground before you work on expanding your area of under-water claiming. If possible, you should be able to build a dwarven oil rig this way; provided a means of effectively and efficiently deconstructing the dams/levies that were made with all those super-floodgates and etc. My idea should make it simpler for a single-stage "cavern collapse" deconstruction of the whole system whe you're ready to flood the place again (especially if you made a sealab and such as well).

Maybe I'm being a bit too optimistic with this idea?

EDIT:
Regarding the modular building of it, when you dry the next modular portion out, you should be able to decommission/deconstruct the previous dams and pumps behind it and then reuse the materials to build the next section; which in-turn, should render this process a tad more efficient material and time-cost-wise. Or you can keep a primary pump system at work after reaching the sea floor, and just tier the section constructions with the dams by opening the bottom-most S-Floodgates to rapidly drain sections for constructions, and gradually build the dam-sections downward from the extension nodes/stepped breakers as they drain; with maybe an auxiliary pump set near an edge that you're working on to moderate the water flow as you extend and close each S-Floodgate on the way down. I have yet to find a good way to setup the lever system when using this system.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2013, 05:45:17 pm by Itnetlolor »
Logged

Cerbsen

  • Bay Watcher
  • c is for butcher
    • View Profile
Re: GUIDE: How to dam/drain a river/brook without digging
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2013, 06:05:02 pm »

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Never seen a river wider than 4 tiles so far. 
...didn't even know they exist.

But i'm sure you can apply the method to all rivers regardless of size, although it wouldn't make sense :D
...nevertheless i'll try to dam a larger river with bridges just as a proof of concept.  ;D

I was just looking for a way to dam a river within the first two seasons without digging large holes into the ground... (in warm/hot biome)
...my method did the job well in about half a season from embark to set up and about one season to drain the river completely.

It is also save for all the dwarfs involved due to they never have to walk in water deeper than 2/7. :)

p.s what is a super-floodgate ?
Logged

Itnetlolor

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
    • Steam ID
Re: GUIDE: How to dam/drain a river/brook without digging
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2013, 06:29:38 pm »

p.s what is a super-floodgate ?
It's my nickname for using a drawbridge as a floodgate. Super, due to being up to 10x the size of a regular floodgate for a reduced price (very efficient, since it doesn't require 10x as many mechanisms to operate either; reason why I recommended it for the offshore building ideas).

But yeah, expanding my idea to modular construction and such is primarily if anyone feels like making an offshore rig as a megaproject. Oh yeah, and getting materials back from decommissioning a drawbridge is far easier than a floodgate, since the materials return to the point of deconstruction, and come back as their raw materials (be it bar/block or stone or log; instead of JUST a floodgate again); makes recycling for future use easier as well. Once more, why I recommend them for building, at least temporary dams/dry docks for off-shore dry-outrigged construction zones. Once you're done with building whatever you had in mind that you wanted in or under the water, deconstruct the bottom-most block, and cave-in the temporary dam (since drawbridges would crumble with ease, and little waste, and enjoy your new water-building/vessel. Of course, if you want a seafaring vessel, I suggest you setup a support column and attach it under the ship, lest you want that to collapse under the seas if you had [CAVE-INS:OFF] when you were building it.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2013, 06:42:32 pm by Itnetlolor »
Logged

Cerbsen

  • Bay Watcher
  • c is for butcher
    • View Profile
Re: GUIDE: How to dam/drain a river/brook without digging
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2013, 07:34:34 pm »

Oh yeah, and advantage of the bridge-wall Super-Floodgate method is also that you can build it all at once, regardless of width (10-wide maximum per-section, however), unlike floodgates that are 1-by-1. Meaning, provided you can slow down a wider river with the same setup extended, you can apply these to wider rivers overall. Just hope you have the material to get this all taken care of. Someone up to testing this method?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

done... super-floodgate works  ;D

Only one "pumpstack" (drain upstream) was necessary as the river drained sooo fast.
Took 2,5 seasons after embark, 47 pumpstacks, 6 water wheels and a lot of wasted time to set up  :P
« Last Edit: January 25, 2013, 07:41:48 pm by Cerbsen »
Logged

Itnetlolor

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
    • Steam ID
Re: GUIDE: How to dam/drain a river/brook without digging
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2013, 08:09:51 pm »

Oh yeah, and advantage of the bridge-wall Super-Floodgate method is also that you can build it all at once, regardless of width (10-wide maximum per-section, however), unlike floodgates that are 1-by-1. Meaning, provided you can slow down a wider river with the same setup extended, you can apply these to wider rivers overall. Just hope you have the material to get this all taken care of. Someone up to testing this method?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

done... super-floodgate works  ;D

Only one "pumpstack" (drain upstream) was necessary as the river drained sooo fast.
Took 2,5 seasons after embark, 47 pumpstacks, 6 water wheels and a lot of wasted time to set up  :P
The important thing is that the proof of concept works. So dwarves can traverse the dried areas (or at least 3/7s (gaining swimming skill while at it)) no problem now without panicking? Cool.

Nice to know. Now the next experiment is that offshore rigging modular drain build... thing that I proposed in an earlier post. Now that may waste quite a bit more time; but if that works using this proof of concept's methods as a method of application, then the offshore oil rig fort idea (without magma/obsidian-casting) can be a possible megaproject.

A good Z-level amount of water to drain, I recommend to at least prove the concept may work is maybe 3Z deep? You can try deeper than that if you want, but 3Z should be enough depth to see if a 10x10 (or 8x8-9x9 minus the S-FGs making up the perimeter) area can be drained and used as a sea floor work shaft being built from top-to-bottom (sea level to below). To further prove the concept, make a sort of airlock on the surface if waves crash atop it to prevent water from going in (even a floor hatch would do), send a few brave dorfs across the walkway while the waves crash, and go into the dwarfmade shaft and build/dig down the hole below it. I recommend you know how to work with or shut off aquifers before doing this challenge/step.

I haven't come up with a good enough rapid-deconstruct method that doesn't sacrifice some poor saps to the detonation of them, or getting drowned by the freeing of them; unless you feel like saving the game, shutting off cave-ins (unless a DFHack plugin can be made to trigger it mid-game), reloading it, and having a dwarf or few that can brave the waters deconstruct the bottom block, and rush to safety (I would suggest burrows, and assigning each highly skilled dwarf with equal skill levels to each portion, and then deconstructing them simultaneously, hope they make it back to base (water should be flowing at a slower pace, seeing as water traveling diagonally flows slower by pressure re-regulation, somehow), repeat the first steps except turn on cave-ins, and watch the water flood the areas and the pumps and bridges and etc. fall apart and a perimeter of discarded materials lie where they were.

With a setup like that, with a central shaft, an offshore floating water fortress should be possible. Bonus points if you can make it look like a hovercraft; more points if you can hide it's oceanic support structure in plain sight. Of course, if you have a [BUILDING_DESTROYER] reach the support beam under the hovercraft, well... goodbye hovercraft. Overall, I think a central column of up/down stairs could work like an ocean lab ladder or something, where a hovercraft would be concerned. Supports the ship, and hides in plain sight, while permitting it's builders to bail out before the flooding of the support's area. I suggest having a "Kill-em-all" switch linked to the support that rests atop it, and it remains the only link to the ship and the waters below. Think of it like shutting off the fans that keep air inside the skirt of the ship.

The "ladder" can also be used to support a classic boat in the water for anyone that wants to relive the Pirates of the Fondled Waters succession/community fort. Just make sure the boat is deep enough in the water for a believable water displacement for the size of ship in question (like, at least a deck or 2 into the waters themself).

EDIT:
Alternatively, you can always freeze the water, and take care of deconstruction and cleanup, and then warm it back up (works best in cold climates, and then shutting off temperature when the water freezes over.

EDIT EDIT:
I suppose an easier method to apply for offshore building would be to make this dam from shore to sea fending water away from 2 directions (or essentially making a "Moses Bridge"), and then establish a perimeter and build downward until you have a dry area, and then procedurally deconstruct it on the way back to shore when you finished. But I still prefer caving in the old sea walls that made up the perimeter for a proper flooding that renders the offshore structure officially independent from the mainland. The old method also only really requires deconstructing a single tile that links to the main shaft and the mainland that connects to the drainage perimeter system. My first idea by building it instead of Moseseying to the designated "Offshore rig" area should also take less time and resources to produce and execute. Plus, doing a modular 10x10 sections at a time should also save on resources, time, and logistics to work on it and for the computer to process FPS-wise, since the area to process is small sections at a time, instead of a giant chunk all at once, which would take ages per-Z-Level. Both in-game and realtime. This should theoretically be cheaper time-wise in construction and processing of the water drainage.

EDIT EDIT EDIT:
Think of it as an improvement of this idea. I'm hoping my tweaking should render the process easier and cheaper to do, and can be entirely (and entirely built) independent from the land (being 4 walls made, aside from the walkway to reach it, and not 3, and using the breakers like I mentioned before as a way of anchoring the drawbridges on the build downward), unlike this one which is directly extending a fort from the land itself. Plus, instead of wall sections being established, it's these Super Floodgates instead, which can be started/built from the point closer to a safe spot; and although it's open when it's laid down at first, it stops everything immediately when it goes up. Think of it like a slatted vent system that when closed, is airtight.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2013, 09:17:50 pm by Itnetlolor »
Logged

sniper_231996

  • Bay Watcher
  • I like to make people happy!
    • View Profile
Re: GUIDE: How to dam/drain a 4 tile wide river/brook without digging
« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2023, 11:07:15 am »

Your design works even after 10 years, a blessing in disguise.
Thank you for your service
https://ibb.co/Hzb6Y2C
Logged
- Dungeon Lord Sniper