Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Di]

Why would it be unsafe to keep them accessible or crime to take them?

Because when economy was in I wanted to have a number of dwarves to be hammered for every last goblin sock they've taken from my stockpile meant for trade.
And because I want to hammer the shit out of every bastard that decided to steal away a piece of dragon meat stack meant for trade instead of specially placed foods in the dinning room stockpile. Or those suturers who use adamantine where rope reed would suffice.

If there are several uses for something you should be able to set which are allowed. And those who break those orders should get hammered.

[zwei]

Why would it be unsafe to keep them accessible or crime to take them?

Because when economy was in I wanted to have a number of dwarves to be hammered for every last goblin sock they've taken from my stockpile meant for trade.
And because I want to hammer the shit out of every bastard that decided to steal away a piece of dragon meat stack meant for trade instead of specially placed foods in the dinning room stockpile. Or those suturers who use adamantine where rope reed would suffice.

If there are several uses for something you should be able to set which are allowed. And those who break those orders should get hammered.

It seems that you need stockpiles that have "taking stuff from this for personal use is crime" flag.

And setting to hospital for stuff it is allowed to use (hey, i was saving that gem encrusted bucket for well!)

Intresting, but there should be some side affects, since morphine is addictive and if a dwarf gets addicted, they could attempt to steal it from the hospital, since it would be locked in the hospital for safety reasons.  If they get caught, then they get jail time.  No hammering because that can result in being given more of the drug if they survive, but a very long jail scentence.

"since it would be locked in the hospital for safety reason"

Why would it be unsafe to keep them accessible or crime to take them?

It seems that it would be just crime for sake of crime. (just like drug laws in most of the world nowadays)

1. Because it's rather rare and precious
2. Because it's addictive
3. Because it's incapacitating
4. Because having half your dwarfes stoned all the time would not make for a fun game. Not for you, that is.

Oh, and I have a feeling this is once more derailing to be a political argument.

1. We can overproduce anything
2. Not issue because 1.
3. That depends - withdrawal is, "stoned" dwarves might be unnoticeable by player  or even beneficial - as long as drug is not halucinogenic or mind altering - stimulants will increase workforce capability and clam-downs will ease up tanrum spirals and increase conteness
4. Depends how severe that it because 3.

In fact it would be interesting game to manage dwarves so that they are not bored enough to take urist-opium but not overworked enough to turn to urist-coke.

[GreatWyrmGold]

I'd like to question why a plant would be unable to be farmed.

I have no idea.
Dorf potatoes can't be farmed. Don't know what these are but they can't be farmed. Nor this and its shrouded history. But those reasons exist.

IRL, please. There's plenty of plants that aren't farmed, but they're ones which aren't economical to farm.

I'd like to point out that overproduction is not intended to be, and is not always, the default state of things.

[Naryar]

There's already alcohol in the game, and tobacco will probably be in as well. I fail to see how drugs shouldn't be implemented.

[wierd]

I would like to see other things implemented first, before the inclusion of medicinals and... recreational... pharmaceuticals above and beyond the usual dwarven vices.

Say for instance, a use for jugs other than bee products.

Imagine the usefulness of an "exploding" jug of forgotten beast ichor, for instance, when launched from a catapult. It doesnt have to hit the target-- it has splash and lasting effect damage areas. Pelting the edge of the map where the goblins always come out would have VERY DESIRABLE effects.

Likewise, making better use of contaminants in this fashion for creating poisoned weapons and ammunition without elaborate processes.

With things like that in place, adding a wider variety of medicinal and poisonous plant types to get jugs of syndrome juice would make a lot of sense, and be far more useful. 

Say, things like nightshades, foxgloves, and pals. All toxic as hell, and not grown en mass, because they arent edible. But very useful in small amounts as poisons and medicines. (nightshade makes atropine, which is useful as antidote against nerve agents, and foxglove makes digitalis extract, which is useful for treating heart ailments. both are also potent poisons.)

The use of medicine can be supplied by the existing contaminant and syndrome support in the game. You could probably mod it in right now, other than the labors.

[Loud Whispers]

IRL, please. There's plenty of plants that aren't farmed, but they're ones which aren't economical to farm.

Depends on the environment then. With Dwarf technology it is hard for me to say what they would and would not have the capability to farm.

[Beast Tamer]

I think the idea to create pharmaceuticals just for pain is an idea that isn't fully realized. Simply put, just creating drugs to help with pain isn't a productive use of time, though the opportunity for an overhauled justice system would be nice. Why have something just for pain, which dwarves can endure very well, when the real killers are infection, FB syndromes such as necrotic rot and paralysis, and massive blood loss?

And while on the topic of medicine, what about the often dangerously negligent behavior of doctors? I would love it if Toady revamped the whole system, maybe making fixing the critically wounded so high up on the priority list that doctors will forgo sleeping, eating, and drinking to save their lives? Maybe make it dependent on the doctor's personality to make it more realistic?

Not only that, but doctors and surgeons in real life often work as teams to treat the critically wounded. What use is having multiple doctors when you have one dwarf laying in the hospital with two legs broken, broken ribs, internal bleeding, and ruptured organs? Wouldn't it be possible to code doctor behavior in such a way that a team of them would work on this dwarf, dealing with all his injuries at the same time?

[Tsuchigumo550]

There could be a split in painkillers:
Natural, which are things like Aloe, used to alleviate pain slightly, and do not form addictions. Yes, i know, it's for (sun)burns, but it's a start.

Alchemic/Reactory, where a basic painkiller/salve is made from a bunch of plants mashed up together. Nonaddictive, but not always safe- some salves create problems as well, such as causing nausea, drowsiness, thirst, or what-have-you. They're kind of nastier the more powerful they are- anti-necrotic salve, for instance, could cause pus, nausea, and the like.

Finally, there is the much debated Drugs, which WOULD be addictive, and could cause problems, and might not even be useful (for instance, a highly addictive substance that causes necrosis and drowsiness) or be only lightly addictive and possibly not even affect those with strong will.

For dwarves, most if not all of these substances are criminal and owning them is a crime. However, some, such as those that give slight happiness, are lightly addictive, and don't cause large problems would simply be frowned upon (such as tobacco chew and cigarettes are in today's culture).

This "addictive" system could be added to many things: for instance, different beers with addictive plants would be craved by dwarves, and while only a super-strong addictiveness would drive them mad without it, it produces a bad thought if they go so long without the substance, then another one when they do recover from addiction.

Addicting tag:
[ADDICTIVENESS:x:y:z:z2:z3]
x is the overall addictiveness of the substance, where 1-20 is very low, 21-40 is low, 41-60 will be addicting to almost everyone, 61-80 is highly addicting, and 81+ is extremely addicting and requires a long recovery period (up to 4 bad thoughts in the cycle of recovery.)

y is the overall initial happy thought given and the bad thoughts involved with recovery. The same scale as above works:
Weak, which gives an initial minor happy thought and has a minor bad thought when in recovery.
Low Strength, which is a minor happy thought and a bad thought.
Average, which is a happy thought and big unhappy thought.
High is a big happy thought and a very unhappy thought.
Extreme is a very happy and very very unhappy thought.

z is the decrease in happines from repeated use, again, with the scale above:
0=No Drop
Slight Drop: The drug slowly loses it's effect, giving the same level of inital happy thought for a long time.
Low Drop: The drug loses it's effect gradually, losing it's power in a good number of uses.
Average: The drug loses it's effect over time, losing it's power in a few uses.
High: The drug quickly loses it's effect, it's power diminished after 2-3 uses.
Extreme: The drug loses it's effect very quickly, and never feels as powerful as the first time.

z2 is the minimal effectiveness of the drug: repeated uses of the drug will not drop below this level of happy thought (same scale as y)

z3 is the recovery time, and determines time between "withdrawl attacks".
0 is an absence of withdrawl attacks: they simply do not happen, though this means that recovery is impossible
1 is a very short time, roughly a week.
2 is roughly a month
3 is a season (3 months)
4 is a year
each number is after 4 increases the time by 1+ year.

This is as unbiased a drug system as I could think of, and while this would allow for... many morally darker mods, I don't think that the system itself is as such. Yes, we'd see a bunch of "marijuana and cocaine mods" but we'd also see additions in larger mods of drugs from the spectrum- and it's muchly up to the player how their dwarves work anyway. Their base morals think of even most low-level addictive substances as very criminal and the very addictive ones as unthinkable (which prevents the dwarves from brewing, eating, or making anything with said substances).

[Deepblade]

Dibs on a crutch using medical Dwarf addicted to pain killers named "Zoden" (The Dwarven word for House, in case you're too lazy to look it up.)