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[Flanderbland]

Hi!

I've just recently found DF, and loving it so far. Got a nice (at least from my point of view) little fortress running (my first), around 220 dwarves atm, and everyone more or less happy.
However, I'm having a bit of trouble handling goblin sieges...

My first siege was a breeze, I sent out the one squad I had and they chopped the goblins to pieces.

The second was... not so fortunate. More goblins, meaner goblins, end of story: Some of my guys bit the dust before I could retreat and raise the bridge (got a moat to keep them out, thankfully). Then I just waited for the goblins to leave.

Come the third siege, I had a marksdwarf-squad trained, and simply put them at one end of the moat and let them kill goblins until they fled. Easy!

Fourth siege... now here's the problem. The goblins, apparently grown wise since last time, brought crossbowmen. Lots of crossbowmen (around 30-35 by my estimate). Against this, my marksdwarf-squad stood little chance, even though they were on a tower, behind fortifications. Had to pull them back after having lost half the squad (and the rest of them I had to haul back, they we're in a bad shape) while only managing to kill around 5 invaders.

I couldn't very well send out my melee-dwarfs neither, since the crossbow-goblins were accompanied by around 30 melee-goblins and 10ish trolls. So they wouldn't have lasted long.
So, now I'm yet again waiting. I got one of the goblin-squads to retreat though, so right now they're all lurking about half the map away. Regrouping or having a party, I don't really care as long as they leave me alone.

My question is, basically, is there any "textbook" way of dealing with large mobs of ranged enemies? Fortifications help I guess, but I noticed that when you're outnumbered 5:1 enough arrows tend to hit you to make it hurt.

Also, can you only have 4 squads of military (including fortress guard) at once? Would've liked to draft more dwarves to even the odds (since I have a pretty big population), but can't seem to create more squads?

And am I guessing right, that not completely killing off the invaders make them return faster (and stronger) than what would've been the case if I'd killed them all off?

Last (and least, completely unrelated): My mayor was "attending a meeting" with one of my more disgruntled dwarves (one that was married to one of my ex-marksdwarves) and I noticed that my mayor was unconscious. Not harmed in any other way, just unconscious. Does it happen that an angry (not tantruming) dwarf knocks someone out while that someone is trying to console them (I'm guessing that's what the mayor was doing)?

Grateful for any answers/suggestions to any of the above!

[Hyndis]

I've found that the best military counter for nearly everything is a blob of marksdwarves. You need a lot of them though. 50+ is a good number. Give them the best quality helmets and chest armor that you can make. These two pieces of armor are by far the most important. Also give them a shield.

Then build a barracks in your entryway, and have all of your marksdwarves be on active/training at the barracks. During downtime they will practice and train each other. If any hostiles appear they will resolve the issue through use of more dakka.

If its not working, you didn't bring enough dakka to the fight.

Dwarves are generally only killed in ranged combat by a shot to the head, which is why helmets are vital. If they're shot in the foot, that can be taken care of by your doctors, and the marksdwarf will return to duty soon after.

Having them all grouped up together is also vital. This means as every goblin comes into range, that single goblin is engaged by your entire military all at the same time. This repeats for every goblin that comes into range. Crossbow bolts will also hit other goblins if they miss the intended target. This means if goblins are attacking you through a narrow corridor, then every bolt will hit something. Even a complete novice will be hitting a goblin with every shot from their quiver.

Any survivors of the rain of bolts can then be clubbed to death at your leisure.

[Torrasque666]

Sounds to me like your mayor is just bored.

[Flanderbland]

Sounds to me like your mayor is just bored.

Huh. Maybe. All I know is that he's happy as can be, but that doesn't discount the fact that he can be bored I guess.

Hyndis: Thanks for the tip, I was guessing that more marksdwarves would be a viable solution Found out how I could make more squads too, seems I have to appoint more militia captains in the nobles screen first! So more marksdwarves incoming

[Quietust]

Crossbow bolts will also hit other goblins if they miss the intended target.

I assume this means crossbow bolts fired by your marksdwarves.

[Rude]

Highly skilled melee dwarfs will swat the bolts out of the air (weapon skill), block them (shield skill, if they have a shield) or jump out of the way (dodge skill) and move fast enough that the gobs are unlikely to get more than 1 or 2 shots before they bleed to death. A legendary fighter is almost invincible to ranged weapons. If they do get shot, it's usually because they were swamped and got "shot from behind" which is only a problem if it was a head shot or makes them "give into pain" while in melee. It's also possible they dodge off a ledge and fall a few z- levels or drown.

Otherwise, add lots of war dogs to your militia or drop dogs in their path, they can soak up bolts. Bonus points if you flank them while they are busy shooting semi-conscious kittens.

Notice you can see how many bolts they have left in their quivers by viewing their inventory.

Really though, in the situation as you describe it, you simply are not prepared. Your best bet is to hole up and wait until they leave or you ARE prepared.
Simple solution would be to dig a hallway and line it with traps and then open access to the surface through it so they rush it. You may have to bait it because sometimes they decide to camp out instead of resume pillaging.

[Merendel]

If all else fails and throwing more beards at the enemy does not solve the problem you can always try the kill it with fire approach.  pumpstack from the magma sea setup to dump copious amounts of Armok's gift to dwarfdom out onto the landscape in the general direction of the invaders.   As an added bonus you can flip on the pumps when the elves show up to purge the land of their tiedye wearing existence.

[Flanderbland]

Really though, in the situation as you describe it, you simply are not prepared. Your best bet is to hole up and wait until they leave or you ARE prepared.
Simple solution would be to dig a hallway and line it with traps and then open access to the surface through it so they rush it. You may have to bait it because sometimes they decide to camp out instead of resume pillaging.

Yup, I've figured that too. Since the last siege (which I managed to repel, but not defeat), I started making steps to prepare (constructing fancy defence systems, training more dwarves and whatnot), but I only had a few months before the next siege (this one) hit, so I couldn't get much ready in time, unfortunately. Simply planned my fortress wrong (thought a moat would be enough, silly me), and didn't focus enough on military strength.

It seems to be working out for now though, I found a vampire in my fortress and sent him out as "bait" (nice way of getting rid of the bastard as well), so now the horde is crowded outside my main gate, and my ballista crews are getting some good practice. At least they'll hopefully kill enough to make them leave.

As for the "super melee-dwarves smacking arrows out of the air"-solution, yeah, I guess that'd be neat. Problem is though that I've trained my melee-squads for a couple of years now (sparring and some combat in ambushes, smaller sieges etc), and the "best" I have is an adept hammerdwarf. Takes ages to get them up to great/legendary (especially since I have to keep them on a bi-monthly rotation since they'll get "depressed by a long patrol route recently"). And only adequate shield user (seems like that's not trained in sparring?).

I know there's a faster way (danger room?), but I heard that was a glitch or something, so I'd rather not grow dependent on it, in case it's "fixed". Might have to though, since this clearly isn't working... and I could see it as a way of "countering" the long-patroll depression (which I think is also a bug? They shouldn't get that from just training, right?)...

[Jimmy]

Without the use of danger rooms you'll probably need years of constant training to make a dwarf into a legendary weapon user. With a danger room it's probably going to take half a season. It's definitely an exploit of the mechanics, but it's a sandbox game, so do what you feel like. In terms of patrols, there's a binary patch for that created by Quietust above. If you don't want to muck around with Hex editing, the .exe can be copypasted from the Modest Mod.

[Hyndis]

Crossbow bolts will also hit other goblins if they miss the intended target.

I assume this means crossbow bolts fired by your marksdwarves.

I think it actually works both ways. But dwarves will beat goblins through sheer dakka. While goblin bolts will take their toll, the goblin bolts should cause no deaths and only minor injuries which can be easily treated. It also gives your doctors some practice.

When doing this I may have 5-10 dwarves in the hospital after a siege, and this is out of 60 marksdwarves fighting. However the dwarves in a hospital usually have only trivial injuries. Often times its just a bruise from getting hit, but the armor takes most of the damage. They're then all back on their feet in a matter of days. I might have maybe 1 serious injury per siege. Fatalities are extremely rare.

The massive barrage of bolts takes care of anything that can bleed easily and efficiently. I still need to have a squad of dwarves with edged weapons in case something arrives that does not bleed. Crossbows cannot kill those creatures. They need to be chopped to pieces instead.

Even wooden bolts works well. Sure, metal bolts are better, but a large enough number of wooden bolts can murder anything. Goblins also generally do not have armor on their limbs, so even though a goblin may be protected from a headshot due to a helmet, with their limbs pincushioned they're helpless and unconscious from the pain. Later on their heads can be bashed in.

[Hyndis]

Hyndis: Thanks for the tip, I was guessing that more marksdwarves would be a viable solution Found out how I could make more squads too, seems I have to appoint more militia captains in the nobles screen first! So more marksdwarves incoming

Remember, if the more dakka isn't working, you obviously just didn't bring enough of it!

A big enough blob of marksdwarves makes short work of anything, with the exception of creatures such as a bronze colossus. But anything short of a bronze colossus is going to be dropped nearly instantly. Even dragons will be dropped by the barrage of bolts.

[Rude]

As for the "super melee-dwarves smacking arrows out of the air"-solution, yeah, I guess that'd be neat. Problem is though that I've trained my melee-squads for a couple of years now (sparring and some combat in ambushes, smaller sieges etc), and the "best" I have is an adept hammerdwarf. Takes ages to get them up to great/legendary (especially since I have to keep them on a bi-monthly rotation since they'll get "depressed by a long patrol route recently"). And only adequate shield user (seems like that's not trained in sparring?).

I've gotten legendary fighters around the time of the second ambush. a few hints:
It takes 2 to spar, no more, no less.
Train all year around, let nice bedrooms and dining halls make up for the unhappy thoughts.
If you plop the training room right in your fort's entrance, they can gaurd while they spar.
Embark with military skills. Fighter will hit legendary first (so I don't take it, because it's easy. But if you want a good fighter fast it might be a good idea.) Dodge and armor skill are very slow to level.
shield increases per block, so when they start blocking reliably it will raise quick enough.

Axes are the most reliable option against goblins. Hammers can more easily break brains in 1 shot, but can only kill if they hit the brain. Axes will eventually bleed a creature out no matter where they land, often severing limbs (if footless, they move very slow. If armless, they are also shieldless / weaponless. And if headless, headless.) Swords are a decent alternative, stabbing means deeper organ penetration at the expense of less severing potential. Spears are better in some situations (as in for fighting large creatures with deeply buried organs). Hammers are really only "good against gobs" if you anticipate they will have access to higher quality metal than you. or for some reason you don't want lots of dead bits laying around your fort.

[gestahl]

Ranged gobs only have the ammo they brought with them.
Birds breed like rabbits cats.
Gobs are just as happy to kill your animals as they are to kill your dwarves.

[Hyndis]

Ranged gobs only have the ammo they brought with them.
Birds breed like rabbits cats.
Gobs are just as happy to kill your animals as they are to kill your dwarves.

Your egg farm could double as an arrow sponge, but you need a lot of birds to soak up the incoming fire. A small creature like a bird can be easily killed in just one shot.

There are benefits to allowing your dwarves to soak up the fire. By being on the receiving end of the goblins your dwarves will improve their defensive skills.

[Sutremaine]

As for the "super melee-dwarves smacking arrows out of the air"-solution, yeah, I guess that'd be neat. Problem is though that I've trained my melee-squads for a couple of years now (sparring and some combat in ambushes, smaller sieges etc), and the "best" I have is an adept hammerdwarf. Takes ages to get them up to great/legendary (especially since I have to keep them on a bi-monthly rotation since they'll get "depressed by a long patrol route recently"). And only adequate shield user (seems like that's not trained in sparring?).

You can encourage the use of shields by swapping their weapon for a second shield. Without parrying, the shield becomes the first line of defence (and also offence, but the skill for that will build quickly. Use metal shields; leather can kill but don't hold your breath). Unless you're using a (unofficial) patched version of the DF .exe, dwarves who spend any useful amount of time active and training will get upset about long duty. Keep them active 24/7 and push for Elite status. It'll stop bothering them then.

Alternatively, picks. Easy skill to train, chance of a bonus 20,000XP, and picks are pretty good weapons. Downside is that Mining isn't a weapon skill, so unless you crosstrain your military will become Elite only when they gain enough experience in Wrestling. Upside to that is that they won't deactivate all their labours for about a decade, so you can take them off duty to use their speed and strength in mass hauling jobs without having to doublecheck that they have anything enabled (I think there's a patch for that issue as well).