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[HavingPhun]

So I am thinking about making a game again. But first I wanted to brainstorm. So I was wondering what motivates people to do things. Like if a person likes blue, trees, and turtles. But doesn't like orange, snow/cold, or fish. They might still become a fisherman in the arctic areas. So ussually isnt something like a job based on what they are interested in? So basically what decides what job someone chooses? I was thinking that I could simulate this in a game. Seeing the world build itself partially based on what people want as a job. I dont want to oversimulate this since it might be really advanced. But I want ideas on how to make it more advanced than I like wheat so ill be a farmer. I will probably make a-lot of these threads.

Edit: Sorry if these seems like a mess with words but I do that sometimes when I am writing.

[HavingPhun]

Just to add things there are:

-Social status
-Economic Status
-Family pressuring them to do a certain job or follow in their footsteps
-Interests

But want to get more in depth and see what you guys think. Talking to people seems to help spur ideas in my mind.

[Loud Whispers]

Personal ideologies. Do they care more about personal gain than helping others or their sense of responsibility for example.

[RedKing]

1. Is there a job available?
2. What does it pay?
3. Fuck it, I'll take it.

[Flying Dice]

1. Is there a job available?
2. What does it pay?
3. Fuck it, I'll take it.

This man, he speaks the truth. I keep going back to a low-paying job with no benefits because I know that they'll rehire me and I won't have to waste weeks looking for a different job when I've only got ~2.5mo. per year to earn income. Obviously things will change later, but still.

[SalmonGod]

Yeah... I think more weight in your modeling should be placed on availability of jobs.  People will educate themselves according to their interests, with some people giving more consideration to what they're good at and what they believe they'll be able to make money doing.  Then they graduate and reality basically makes people's decisions for them.  Some people will fight reality like mad.  I graduated 4 years ago, and am still working my ass off to develop a career related to my degree while trapped in a job I hate.  The majority of people just give up.

[Starver]

Like if a person likes blue, trees, and turtles. But doesn't like orange, snow/cold, or fish. They might still become a fisherman in the arctic areas.

To somewhat echo what others have said, if the above person happens to be an Inuit, and doesn't currently have an opportunity for travel to (say) the Caribbean, then, yes, they'd probably plump for the fishing job.  At least for the time being.

You could boil it down to the old criminality adage "means, motive, opportunity".

For any given job, and any given person, can that person:
a) Be able to get employed (or self-employ themself) in that job,
b) Desire to do that work (or at least desire it more than anything else available)
c) Luck out against all the others who want (or will put up with) that job, and who would beat them to it.

It needn't be boolean.  Grade each test, and see what jobs each person (or, vice-versa for a given job, which people) come up with the best combined score[1].  It may be really difficult for said Inuit to get a job building palm-wood huts for the tourists at a turtle sanctuary in the Bahamas, but with their heart set out to get the job and exceptional qualifications in carpentry and zoology gained at nightclasses[2] it might be an absolute shoe-in position for them when they actually apply!


If you don't like the MMO triplet, I'm sure you could work with any other pressures you want.  (Parental influences... i.e. tendency to do what the house breadwinner does; Caste[3] expectations... 'your' kind tends to work with horses a lot; Circumstances... A minor war starts, and you go and do your duty, leading onto professional soldiering afterwards, or perhaps becoming mercenary once Your Country No Longer Needs You!, quite so much.)

[1] Straight sum/average, product of all terms, geometric mean, log sum..? .You may get different results for different combinations.  To which you might pre-apply weightings to the terms[1a].  A "zero" score for one item could totally scupper some combinatorial methods from winning, and a maximum-value score for one item could allow another method's result to dominate, so tune to your own satisfaction.

[1a] Availability should be quite important, but not create an automatic up-take for the most available jobs nor necessarily be a deal-breaker for the least available.  Except, of course when there's absolutely no call for nuclear scientists, in amongst your typical meso-american indian cliff-dwelling pre-Columbian settlement.

[2] During one winter, when there's an lot of night...

[3] Consider also gender, physique/build...

[HavingPhun]

Thank you all for your help. I hope that I wont abandon this project since I seem interested in it.

[2] During one winter, when there's an lot of night...

What?

[Delta Foxtrot]

Thank you all for your help. I hope that I wont abandon this project since I seem interested in it.

[2] During one winter, when there's an lot of night...

What?

The polar night occurs when the night lasts for more than 24 hours. That's a lotta night.

[GalenEvil]

...and so a lot of night classes PTW, I wanna see where this goes. If you model psychological and physical attributes then that can also be an impetus towards various careers. Those of higher intellect are somewhat less likely to get certain jobs and be satisfied with them. At the same time those who are unsatisfied with their jobs might seek, through means differentiated by their psychological traits (altruism, honesty, deviousness, et al.) may affect how they go about raising their satisfaction.

[Sirus]

1. Is there a job available?
2. What does it pay?
3. Fuck it, I'll take it.

Oh God, this is me all the freakin' time. Of course, I've yet to actually get an offer...

[HavingPhun]

...and so a lot of night classes PTW, I wanna see where this goes. If you model psychological and physical attributes then that can also be an impetus towards various careers. Those of higher intellect are somewhat less likely to get certain jobs and be satisfied with them. At the same time those who are unsatisfied with their jobs might seek, through means differentiated by their psychological traits (altruism, honesty, deviousness, et al.) may affect how they go about raising their satisfaction.

I want to make it so people start off as hunters and gatherers and then slowly go on to domesticate things and make a society. They also would build there own cities towns. Then decide what job they want/get. But if people are unhappy and the economy crashes then the civilization might fail or have a rebellion.

[HavingPhun]

Another thing I was wondering is what level of technology should the game have. People would start off with sticks, stones, and bones. Then eventually move on to copper, bronze, iron, and steel. But how far should I go with it. I wouldn't mind spending alot of time making it go into modern and fairly near - future tech but I don't know if I should.

[rabidgam3r]

Another thing I was wondering is what level of technology should the game have. People would start off with sticks, stones, and bones. Then eventually move on to copper, bronze, iron, and steel. But how far should I go with it. I wouldn't mind spending alot of time making it go into modern and fairly near - future tech but I don't know if I should.

Go all the way to the Singularity.

[HavingPhun]

So I wrote some notes on how the game would go about people choosing jobs. Also took some bits and pieces from your suggestions.But please read it and tell me what you think. Any suggestions and criticism are welcome. I am also most likely going to only be brainstorming and planning until feb. 17th since my fast connection doesn't reset its data until then. So I'm stuck on 5 kbps download speed dial-up until then. Afaik I won't be getting anywhere with a fast connection until the 18th - 19th of feb. So I'll have to plan for now. But having a good plan is key to sucess. So please read and tell me what you think.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Jobs are chosen based on several things.
   Final List:

   - Likes/Dislikes/Interests. (Can this person even stand the job, What job are they interested   in or could they have fun with)

   - Socioeconomic class/status. (Go's with education and caste. Can this person afford the education needed for the job or can they even have this job being in the caste they are in?)

   - Job availability. (Are there jobs available? Do companies & businesses need any more or less workers. Are they laying workers off.)

   - Skill Level/Variety. (Are they experienced? Are they green and need to be taught many things? Will they make dumb mistakes do to lack of experience?)

   - Pay. (Will they get paid enough to make the job worth it? Are they hard on money and its the best they can find? Is the job charitable and they are kind and selfless? Would they rather have just enough money and enjoy their job rather than be payed loads?)

   - How Desparately one needs the job(Go's along with pay since a desparate person might take a lower pay since they    need the money).

   - Personality. (Again are they selfless, greedy, cruel, indifferent? Do they like action & adventure?)

   - Outside Pressures, (Family, Common Job of class/caste. People in your kind are usually farmers so you will be too. You are not of nobility so you cannot have this high class & powerful job. You are a just a peasant).

   - Location(An indian villager in the cold arctic couldn't grow tropical fruit. Can you afford to move to a more suitable location or go into a less satisfying job until you can afford it? Will you leave your life behind or convince your family and friends to stay behind with you).

   - Need for workers. (Said before I think. Do the businesses need addition workers? Maybe they need or want more experienced ones?)

   - Education. (Can you afford an education for the job you want? Will you work another or multiple jobs to make money for your education. Is your caste allowed to be educated well? Were you educated as a child?)

   - Competition. (Do others want the same job as you? Are you stronger, smarter, more skilled, or more    experienced than your competetors? Do you even want this job? How bad do you need or want it? Would you secretly sabotage or kill your oponents?)

   - Gender/Build. (Will the job offerer allow you to work for    them as your gender? Are you to big, small, weak, or strong for the job?)

   - Need for Specific Job. (Does a need for this specific job even exist? Does your aztec village need a nuclear engineer? Does your futuristic city need a stablemaster?)

How it works + Math behind it.   

   Info:For this I am going to use several examples to hopefully explain how it works. First we are going to follow Steve the peasant in his path in finding a job for himself. Steve is coming of age to be an adult and make a life for himself. He continue to work on the family farm and barely scrape by like he has all his life or find another job. Steve finds the life of a farmer very boring and can't stand it. Although he did like when he helped build the new barn with his family and enjoyed mortaring and laying the bricks for the fireplace in his home. Steve is strong and sturdy built but he isn't very intellegent or coordinated. He lives right outside a small but prosperous village which sits beside a large river and has a population of  several thousand people. The closest city is 103 miles away and the capitol is 257 miles away.

   Step One: First the local business owners determine if they need addition workers. They check for things like:
   
   - Do I have enough money to hire more workers?
   - Do I have more workers than I can afford?
   - Do I have more workers than I need? (Can afford them but having some of the extras does not help them and makes no difference in production/ profit/performance/etc.)
   - Do I need more experienced workers? (They are looking to have more experienced ones if they can save them the trouble of training the other. Also depends if they are more selfless and kind than selfish and greedy. )
   - Do I need more workers or seasonal workers to to ups and downs in product demand?
   - etc.
   
   Afterwords if they have good reason to hire addition workers then they will post a job offer of some sort in a central plaza, or a newspaper, or other advertising. If they have more money to spend then they can pay for more and better advertising to reach more people. They also have a higher possibility of finding higher skilled and    more experienced people if they want. Since they are reaching a larger amount of people. If they cannot afford    any forms of advertisement then they will spread the offer by word of mouth In taverns and other meeting places. Others may spread the word for them. There would also be different clipboards in most cities and towns that they could post on there for free. People looking for a job could go there and check for offerings.
   
   Step Two: Steve sees a job offering from a carpenters workshop who needs an apprentice as an extra hand to help around the shop. The offering says no skills in carpentry required but that the person needs to be strong and cant be a total moron(Really low intellegence). Normally steve would have to decide if he wants this job or if he is educated enough for it. He Also would look at other jobs and get an idea on which one seems the best for him for the time being. He decides to apply to this job. Steve and other people who want the job all go to the workshop several days later at the specified    time and date. Steve and the others size each other up.    There is Steve and two others. The three things that  matter in carpentry the most are strength, Carpentry skill, and Intellegence for common sense.
   
         Steve:
      Very strong 8/10
      Below average intellegence 4/10
      Basic Carpentry 7/20
   Joe:
      Weak 3/10
      Very Smart 8/10
      Nail Driver 3/20
   Bill:
      Average Strength 5/10
      Average Intellegence 5/10
      Low Carpentry 5/20

   Attributes like intellegence and strength are actually between 1 - 100. Skills like Carpentry and Farming will most likely be between 0 - 100. The Carpentry skill is put as out of 20 so it has more wieght in the model. For example if skills and attributes both are out of 100 then:
   
         Intellegence: 20/100

      (20/100)/10 = 2/10

   Carpentry Skill: 20/100

      (20/100)/5 = 4/20

   

   That way Carpentry Skill has more wieght in the model than          Intellegence. So the Formula for finding out who the Carpenter chooses would (Simplified) be:
   
         Stength + Intellegence + Carpentry Skill
             
   Or

   (Strength/10) + (Intellegence/10) + (Carpentry Skill/5)

   So:

   Steve: (80/10) + (40/10) + (35/5)

      8 + 4 + 7 = 19

   Joe: (30/10) + (80/10) + (15/5)

      3 + 8 + 3 = 14

   Bill: (50/10) + (50/10) + (25/5)

      5 + 5 + 5 = 15

      
   Steve gets the job because he got the highest score. Before hand when he decides which job he will try to recieve the game would do something similar but he wouldn't know what competetors he was up against and he wouldn't know the personality of the employer. That way Steve and others could not immediately know if he would get the job or not without    applying for it and seeing his opposition.Steve was just intellegent enough to get the job because some jobs might have special conditions. Like said above the employer wanted    someone with common sense and that mixes in with the Intellegence attribute. This is somewhat simplified as there    would also be some extra conditions lying around that would determine some other requirements. Like certains skills or attributes not being too low or higher than the employer. Some employers might not even hire or let someone work with them if they have a certain personality trait or traits thats they dislike. The math could also be shown as:
   

(Factor/Wieght) + (Factor/Wieght) + (Factor/Wieght) +   (etc/etc).......
   

Where the factor is a attribute or skill that affects the job. Also where Wieght is how much it matters more than another factor. So the lower the wieght the more it matters and the Higher the wieght the less it matters. You could also have wieghts more than 100 to show that the factor gives you less of a chance of getting that job. This would be useful to use with personality traits that the employer dislikes in people. They would probably be out 0f Ten or Twenty instead of One - Hundred. Also if the employer dislikes one of the people applying for the job or if they wronged each other or each others friends family that might lower the chances of getting the job. But on the other hand If the helped them or their friends or family or are known for good deeds then that might    help them get the job. A criminal could do good things to counteract their bad reputation and good person could do wrong to hurt theirs. Also some people might be offering    criminal jobs and wont hire a person if they are not bad or have not done bad things. Other things could affect the chances to get the job in good or bad ways:
   
   - Prejugdices against certaine races, cultures, castes, or classes.
   - Being foriegn
   - Being unknown (For certain jobs)
   - The employer knowing or being on good/ bad terms with your family. (They would have to be in really bad terms with most of your family to not allow you to work for them)
   - etc.