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[NW_Kohaku]

Armok, guys, you are getting to be such elf pansys. This game is not real, there doesn't have to be all races against slavery. Slaves can do all the dangerous and ugly work without throwing a big fit, don't waste up your dwarven alcohol, and can be used as vampire food without getting rid of a useful dwarf. Sure, dwarves could be used as slaves, but is that useful?

No, no it's not useful.

That's the point that's being made, and what you don't seem to understand about the argument.

Once we get to having multi-racial forts (support for which will be required for this "enslave someone of another race" thing, anyway,) then there's no difference between enslaving a dwarf and a goblin.

... And you just said it: Enslaving a dwarf isn't useful. 

What you don't get is that enslaving a goblin isn't any more useful because there's no difference between how a goblin and a dwarf are controlled.

[ff2]

Slaves can do all the dangerous and ugly work without throwing a big fit, don't waste up your dwarven alcohol, and can be used as vampire food without getting rid of a useful dwarf.

[10ebbor10]

Slaves can do all the dangerous and ugly work without throwing a big fit, don't waste up your dwarven alcohol, and can be used as vampire food without getting rid of a useful dwarf.

Actually, in order to be realistic, the slaves would revolt if they saw that their survival chances were higher that way, (and it's not like dwarves really care about dangerous tasks), the guards you'll need to take care of the slaves will drink that alcohol for you, and you're not supposed to control vampires btw. (Also, when have we ever had a shortage of useless dwarves).

Really, normal dwarves are currently slaves in all but name. We need to fix that first before adding real slaves, if at all.

[BronzeAge]

Slaves can do all the dangerous and ugly work without throwing a big fit, don't waste up your dwarven alcohol, and can be used as vampire food without getting rid of a useful dwarf.

Actually, in order to be realistic, the slaves would revolt if they saw that their survival chances were higher that way, (and it's not like dwarves really care about dangerous tasks), the guards you'll need to take care of the slaves will drink that alcohol for you, and you're not supposed to control vampires btw. (Also, when have we ever had a shortage of useless dwarves).

Really, normal dwarves are currently slaves in all but name. We need to fix that first before adding real slaves, if at all.

Slaves to Armok: God of Blood
Chapter II: Dwarf Fortress

So they're just slaves then?

[GreatWyrmGold]

Armok, guys, you are getting to be such elf pansys. This game is not real, there doesn't have to be all races against slavery. Slaves can do all the dangerous and ugly work without throwing a big fit, don't waste up your dwarven alcohol, and can be used as vampire food without getting rid of a useful dwarf. Sure, dwarves could be used as slaves, but is that useful?

It's not that we think all races should be against slavery.
It's that the only vanilla race we ever see any of the societal workings of (ie, dwarves) has classified slavery as a felony. This indicates a dearth of slavery in dwarven fortresses. Toady shouldn't bother adding a feature that would never get seen.

[NW_Kohaku]

Slaves can do all the dangerous and ugly work without throwing a big fit, don't waste up your dwarven alcohol, and can be used as vampire food without getting rid of a useful dwarf.

Once again...

Why do you assume all dwarves are useful, and all slaves are useless?

When we're talking about something that makes those other races a part of your society, then why are you going to assume the non-dwarves are the useless ones?

What happens when you get a goblin who has legendary armorer or surgeon?  Are they still useless? 

What about the peasant dwarf with no skills who is constantly on breaks and never bothers gaining skill, are they the ones who are so much more useful?

The whole basis of your argument rests upon an invalid assumption that the "slave" races would always be useless, and the dwarves are always going to be useful - you can already see how blatantly fallacious that claim is if you play the game at all, there's always useless dwarves that do nothing but guzzle your booze.  (And since when is booze anything that you need to worry about "wasting" - as the game is currently set up, you have no excuse for not having so much booze you're literally just giving it away to the traders simply to clear out some of your stockpiles.)

[Larix]

From what i could glean, those who suggest slavery mainly think of it as something to improve the game experience for the player. And to this i'd say that'd be a good reason to make humans and goblins a playable species in the closer future - humans find slavery acceptable, and goblins have no taboos at all apart from treason. Suggesting slavery in dwarven forts would require a total change of dwarven ethics - as they stand, slavery is one of the biggest crimes imaginable for them, right alongside treason, oath-breaking and killing members of their own civilisation (dwarfs also find torture of any kind unthinkable; i keep thinking the stereotypical Overseer is not a dwarf, but a kobold-elf halfbreed). Dwarfs practising slavery would be a whole different beast than Dwarf Fortress dwarfs.

I'm not even going to touch on the fact that slavery isn't actually implemented in the game yet and that 'slavery' is a pretty complicated social phenomenon in the real world - the issues with that have been competently lain out by others. I just wanted to mention the game-design problem of the suggestion basically coming out as 'change dwarven ethics to goblin'.

In the long run, i think it might be interesting if a civilisation's ethics could change over time - becoming embittered by constant assaults and sieges, dwarfs might start torturing their prisoners as an example. Or they might integrate prisoners into their society but end up getting influenced by their pre-dwarfification morals, downgrading some of the crimes to lesser punishments or even deeming them 'acceptable'. But i guess that's a whole different suggestion.

[Zale]

Slaves can do all the dangerous and ugly work without throwing a big fit, don't waste up your dwarven alcohol, and can be used as vampire food without getting rid of a useful dwarf.

You mean, like what dwarves do now?

I laugh at the idea that people care enough about the well-being of their dwarves to use something else if things get dangerous.

[CaptainLambcake]

dwarves drink alcohol.

[10ebbor10]

dwarves drink alcohol.

1. They drink water if they need too
2. The guards you would need to keep the slaves in check drink alcohol too.
3. If reducing alcohol consumption is your only argument for slavery, I'm not convinced

[CaptainLambcake]

guards would drink even without slaves.  gives military something to do when not training.

[Avo]

If slaves were added under the current system as citizens who simply never took breaks I can see them quickly out skilling regular dwarves due to their increased work hours. I used to be for slaves but it doesn't make sense in our current system, the fact that we have a slavery ethic means they're coming but they're not in yet because they just don't have a place. At the earliest I would expect slaves to be added in after the dwarven economy, at which point I think your criminals would be as good of a candidate as any other sentient creature.

[GreatWyrmGold]

guards would drink even without slaves.  gives military something to do when not training.

Slaves need to drink something, too. And eat. Frankly, they're just not efficient if you're not paying your workers.

[CaptainLambcake]

goblins dont eat or drink.

[Beast Tamer]

If you want Slavery to make Dwarf Fortress more realistic you'll need to address the fact that they don't eat or drink as well, or risk making the game less realistic. Goblins and elves need something to keep them running, after all, or do they simply absorb sunlight like plants?

Besides, if you direct slaves to do tasks, what separates them from your dwarves?