Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[peskyninja]

Someone mentioned KoL?

What is KoL?

[Man of Paper]

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/VideoGame/KingdomOfLoathing?from=Main.KingdomOfLoathing


Just, you know, make sure not to click the blue text anywhere else.

[Graknorke]

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/VideoGame/KingdomOfLoathing?from=Main.KingdomOfLoathing


Just, you know, make sure not to click the blue text anywhere else.

What's that you say? I can't hear you from under ALL OF THESE TABS.

I was already on TVTropes though, so it's cool.

[Leafsnail]

The whole idea that if something works in the marketplace then it's fine and shouldn't be complained about worries me. Some companies are using what I consider to be underhand and exploitative methods to extract cash from people. Mostly I'm thinking of things with skinner box mechanics and the like.

I agree that kind of business model is unethical, the kind which attempts to extract as much cash from you as possible via psychological manipulation.  I don't think this claim can be leveled at big developers though - even if you don't like the game they still are in most cases trying to honestly sell you a product.

[LoSboccacc]

CoH2 is only a few months away from release, not much they could do with that

Didn't you see what they did with Spore? My dear Spore?!!? They removed like half the game in the FINAL (YEAH THAT'S RIGTH FINAL FUCKING STAGE) TESTING stage.

This interests me. Have you a reference to the spore story? Thank you. Post or pm at your convenience.

[Leatra]

Guys,

It's doesn't matter even a little if the companies are being evil and unethical bastards. If a product is selling, they will make more of it. If Call of Duty is still selling, they will make the 100. CoD game if it keeps selling. They understand ONLY one language and here it is:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

If they do stupid things like DLCs and DRM, and if see an increase in the sales, they will think "Look! Moar people are buying!" According to them, it justifies anything they are doing because (DRM + DLCs + overhyping = more sales = success) is the formula these guys are using.

Yes, companies are exploiting the "consumers" (that's what we are) and extracting cash from them like milking a cow. We should be aware of it and be critical of games they are developing. We can't stop them from doing it because they think differently than us (click if you dare). They see us as mindless money bags (aka consumers) and if we don't show them that we are people capable of buying what we really want rather than accepting anything they throw at us, they will keep seeing us as consumers. They are businessmen. They see games as products and they see gamers as consumers. Don't act like every company is able to think like an indie dev.

Now, most people (if not all) in this forum already knows this and most of us don't throw money at these greedy companies AND then come here to complain like a bunch of fucking hypocrites (RIGHT GUYS?). I can't say the same thing about the majority of gamers though. And companies tend to care more about the majority because (more consumers = increased sales)

So, in conclusion, bitching isn't gonna change things.

[Levi]

I maintain my right to complain about the state of the industry AND not spent money.  Its not like I've got direct control over other peoples spending habits.

[Leatra]

Of course you got that right, even though it's not being taken seriously by companies.

But other gamers might take it seriously and learn a couple of things, so it's not that bad. We just need to kidnap every gamer and brainwash them for liberal reasons.

[fqllve]

I don't see what's so stupid about DLC. The worst I can think of are weapon and outfit packs, and if people are buying them, maybe it's because they think they're actually worth the money? If so is it really wrong to charge for them, especially when one of the only things motivating developers to include them in most cases is the fact that they can make more money off of them. It's not like most games were full of alternate appearance stuff before people realized they could charge for them. Otherwise, most DLC I've seen is content that clearly wouldn't have been in the game in the first place.

And of course big developers see gamers as consumers, do you think Hollywood is any different? Do you think big publishers are any different with novels? They don't have the luxury of artistry because the only thing that sustains their ability to make games as expensive as they do is the fact that those games generate a lot of revenue. If you want games with huge budgets, by necessity those games are going to be profit-oriented.

[Vattic]

The whole idea that if something works in the marketplace then it's fine and shouldn't be complained about worries me. Some companies are using what I consider to be underhand and exploitative methods to extract cash from people. Mostly I'm thinking of things with skinner box mechanics and the like.

I agree that kind of business model is unethical, the kind which attempts to extract as much cash from you as possible via psychological manipulation.  I don't think this claim can be leveled at big developers though - even if you don't like the game they still are in most cases trying to honestly sell you a product.

A lot of MMOs use psychological manipulation of one kind or another to keep you playing. Rare item drops being a perfect example of this.

[alexandertnt]

Guys,

It's doesn't matter even a little if the companies are being evil and unethical bastards. If a product is selling, they will make more of it. If Call of Duty is still selling, they will make the 100. CoD game if it keeps selling. They understand ONLY one language and here it is:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

If they do stupid things like DLCs and DRM, and if see an increase in the sales, they will think "Look! Moar people are buying!" According to them, it justifies anything they are doing because (DRM + DLCs + overhyping = more sales = success) is the formula these guys are using.

If the increase in sales came from people genuinely wanting these things (although I doubt that's the case with DRM since it offers the consumer nothing) I do not see a problem. They are just putting a product on the shelf for people to buy if they so wish. In a fair market enviroment, the COD MW100 would sell because people genuinely want it. I think the biggest issue is unfair manipulation of the thought process through false reviews, those lying and vague trailers etc which is all to common in the game industry. It is more common than the movie/book industry, where finding a negative review of a blockbuster just after release is not very hard.

A lot of MMOs use psychological manipulation of one kind or another to keep you playing. Rare item drops being a perfect example of this.

Alot of MMO's (particularly free ones) are seem like casino's with fancy graphics. I think about all the flashing big numbers in casino's, and the flashing big numbers that arise from doing various things in MMO's and I can see a direct comparison. Particularly with some of those mystery-box-like things, that you have to purchase/purchase-a-key for. You are paying money for the possibility of getting something awesome.

[scriver]

I don't see what's so stupid about DLC. The worst I can think of are weapon and outfit packs, and if people are buying them, maybe it's because they think they're actually worth the money? If so is it really wrong to charge for them, especially when one of the only things motivating developers to include them in most cases is the fact that they can make more money off of them. It's not like most games were full of alternate appearance stuff before people realized they could charge for them. Otherwise, most DLC I've seen is content that clearly wouldn't have been in the game in the first place.

And of course big developers see gamers as consumers, do you think Hollywood is any different? Do you think big publishers are any different with novels? They don't have the luxury of artistry because the only thing that sustains their ability to make games as expensive as they do is the fact that those games generate a lot of revenue. If you want games with huge budgets, by necessity those games are going to be profit-oriented.

For example of what is wrong with DLC (because of modern publisher culture etc and not content you download in itself), take the Prothean Party Member "DLC". All the files for that party member, dialogue, sound, everything, was among the content you bought when you bought the game. If you downloaded the game, you downloaded that content. If you bought a disc, all the files you needed was on that disc. All the "DLC" did was unlock that content. Essentially, you were charged twice. First you paid for the content and the license to use the content, then again to be able to use the code you already were licenced to use.

[fqllve]

But do you think that content would have been on the disc if they hadn't intended to charge extra for it? Also, I haven't actually played ME3 yet, but wasn't that character in the game anyway, regardless of the DLC, and the DLC only unlocked him as a recruitable character? If so then it makes sense the content would have been included in the base game in the first place. But even in more questionable cases, it's only the method of delivery that's questionable, and since the end is the same (either way you're never going to get the content for free) I don't find it particularly bothersome.

I think the biggest issue is unfair manipulation of the thought process through false reviews, those lying and vague trailers etc which is all to common in the game industry.

Bought and false reviews are a problem, but I think the real solution to that is to just boycott the people putting out those reviews and for truly concerned gamers to get together and start making more honest and critical reviews themselves.

[Leafsnail]

Game footage tends to be pretty helpful for deciding.  I certainly hope they don't try to crack down on that since it's generally the best indicator for me.

[scriver]

But do you think that content would have been on the disc if they hadn't intended to charge extra for it?

This statement doesn't make any sense. There is no reason for him to be in the OC just because they intend to charge more for him. DLC are usually downloaded. That's why it's called Downloadable Content. It isn't hidden among the content you already paid for.