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[Remuthra]

is this a debate or bashing room?

You bash Zavvnao in the post with your adamantium OOC, shattering the sarcasm through the +badger leather internet+.

[Zavvnao]

is this a debate or bashing room?

You bash Zavvnao in the post with your adamantium OOC, shattering the sarcasm through the +badger leather internet+.

yay! :3

[gman8181]

Ehem, my post said that our sleepers didn't have to kill civilians and suggested a way to go about this.  I also said we wouldn't have to target civilians in the first place but instead target military units.  The posts I repeatedly made.  Approximately five times.  I think me and Remuthra actually had a lot of views in common despite some misunderstandings and I thought a reasonable solution was proposed by me in one of my lasts posts.  One of my posts which once again has been passed up by many people who only seem to want to respond to arguments that are convenient for them.  I thought GWG and me had the same idea although it appears I was partially wrong.  We have many of the views on the sleeper agents in common but not all of them.  The main differences appear to lie in aspects that many people are arguing against as their main reasons for not wanting sleepers/infiltrators.  I'm pretty sure my suggestion made in multiple posts addressed all the issues.  Regardless it has been ignored and passed over by most people time and again.  Maybe I'll just stop bothering to post things if no one is even going to give me reasons why they disagree with my posts and challenging in a respectful manner (which I hope I have done myself) the opinions I have put forth.

[racnor]

is this a debate or bashing room?

You bash Zavvnao in the post with your adamantium OOC, shattering the sarcasm through the +badger leather internet+.

yay! :3

why is the internet made of badger leather? That has disturbing implications. Should I start a badger farm?

[Remuthra]

is this a debate or bashing room?

You bash Zavvnao in the post with your adamantium OOC, shattering the sarcasm through the +badger leather internet+.

yay! :3

why is the internet made of badger leather? That has disturbing implications. Should I start a badger farm?

Why do you think badgers are so angry? Because people go around skinning them to make ip addresses.

[jaass]

Ehem, my post said that our sleepers didn't have to kill civilians and suggested a way to go about this.  I also said we wouldn't have to target civilians in the first place but instead target military units.  The posts I repeatedly made.  Approximately five times.  I think me and Remuthra actually had a lot of views in common despite some misunderstandings and I thought a reasonable solution was proposed by me in one of my lasts posts.  One of my posts which once again has been passed up by many people who only seem to want to respond to arguments that are convenient for them.  I thought GWG and me had the same idea although it appears I was partially wrong.  We have many of the views on the sleeper agents in common but not all of them.  The main differences appear to lie in aspects that many people are arguing against as their main reasons for not wanting sleepers/infiltrators.  I'm pretty sure my suggestion made in multiple posts addressed all the issues.  Regardless it has been ignored and passed over by most people time and again.  Maybe I'll just stop bothering to post things if no one is even going to give me reasons why they disagree with my posts and challenging in a respectful manner (which I hope I have done myself) the opinions I have put forth.

I have no problem with your suggestion, but maybe we should remove the barriers that stop fear, pain, and critical thinking with this fungus/virus for the Jusiticars. If we employ this in a middle of battle and let some of them or capture some Justicars we could see the effects.

[gman8181]

jaass: Perhaps we could make it so that those things you mentioned can be switched on or off, so we aren't limited one way or another.  It might require us to spend additional mana and time to design it that way but as long as we start the project at a decent time, we should be able to take as long as we need to make this thing.
(also thanks for giving me some input to work with, instead of just shooting the idea down )

[kaian-a-coel]

With all the additions, I have less and less to oppose to this idea. To the point that I only have the moral barrier against it now. Because it essentially make us the Borg.

[Remuthra]

On another note, the chaos golems.
1. We should give them a machine gun which fires superheated projectiles replacing the flamethrower. Harder for Cold to stop, longer range, and lighter than a flamethrower. Besides, it's a minigun on fire.

2. I was thinking of giving the golems the name Reborn, owing to the fact that they would be empty bodies for our souls to command.

Reposted.

[kahn1234]

I oppose the fungus infiltrator things.

its not right. how do we remove them (the spores) afterwards?

i dont like the connotations that putting something like spores has to the people infected, especially civilians. What about children? will we effectively remove their free will? force them to work for us like we would be doing to their parent and other relatives??

Its wrong. If we want infiltrators/spies/assassins, breed up and use the Jaras.

Its not something a benevolent God would do.

[kaian-a-coel]

On another note, the chaos golems.
1. We should give them a machine gun which fires superheated projectiles replacing the flamethrower. Harder for Cold to stop, longer range, and lighter than a flamethrower. Besides, it's a minigun on fire.

2. I was thinking of giving the golems the name Reborn, owing to the fact that they would be empty bodies for our souls to command.

Reposted.

Why not both? I like the idea.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[G D]

I support idea about sleeper agents - noone wants to use them against civilians, they will infiltrate army instead. If spores will not brainwash but instead remove EoT brainwashing then I don’t see any moral problems in this. And even some mind control is still acceptable if Donut wants to defeat EoT and Grummuga. There are IC reasons for him to do this, also he is benevolent but he is not god of peace, light and fluffy wamblers so this isn’t OOC for him. It is acceptable to lose in friendly tournament but it isn’t acceptable to lose in war and have all our followers killed and then devoured by Void. I am pretty sure that grummuga and Order will not care about souls of those hummies and heretics.
Also I think that this will result in Gambit Pileup and a lot of chaos when our agents and agamenon agents start to replace each other(and chaos is good). So +1 to sleeper fungus agents.

[GreatWyrmGold]

About the Fungus Sleeper-As I suggested...that went WAY overboard. I took a workable concept, added a couple cool ones that didn't fit well, then it...sorta snowballed. Sorry about that.

With all the additions, I have less and less to oppose to this idea. To the point that I only have the moral barrier against it now. Because it essentially make us the Borg.

Except that, with the new revisions, we'd be Borg who could (and probably would) return the people to normal.

On another note, the chaos golems.
1. We should give them a machine gun which fires superheated projectiles replacing the flamethrower. Harder for Cold to stop, longer range, and lighter than a flamethrower. Besides, it's a minigun on fire.
2. I was thinking of giving the golems the name Reborn, owing to the fact that they would be empty bodies for our souls to command.

Reposted.

#2 sounds like a good idea, but I'm a bit uncertain about #1...especially since magical flamethrowers don't need ammo.

I oppose the fungus infiltrator things.
its not right. how do we remove them (the spores) afterwards?

The new idea would just affect the lungs. It could easily die and be coughed up, piecemeal, once we didn't need them any more. Also, magic.

i dont like the connotations that putting something like spores has to the people infected, especially civilians. What about children? will we effectively remove their free will? force them to work for us like we would be doing to their parent and other relatives??

It's spies, possible saboteurs, and much less bad than what any of our enemies would do to us.

Its wrong. If we want infiltrators/spies/assassins, breed up and use the Jaras.

Assassins, yes; spies, maybe; infiltrators, Maher's Afterlife no. How the MA do you expect to disguise a Jara as a human?

Its not something a benevolent God would do.

We can't let ourselves be evil, but neither should we straitjacket our tendencies into Stupid Good. We don't have any covert operators which could hide in polite society; this would let us make a massive number of them, and release them when needed.

Oh, and everyone opposed seems to be opposed because we'll take control of civilians. Would you be fine with it if we just used them on enemy military forces?

[Zavvnao]

this discussion seems to be the clash of grey/color morality vs. black and white morality.

or just a shouting match where the one who yells the most will win.

[scapheap]

How about a parasitic worm that can use it host senses and take a small amount of nutriment from it host but otherwise unnoticeable. No mind control, give us spies and the other gods will be none the wiser.