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[Ukrainian Ranger]

And the same old stuff again -
1) it's worth to give boons when they are 0.1% of our mana generation, not earlier. We can't spend mana!
2) boons are nearly useless if that's not one person with very powerful boon...  ( I am sure that you don't propose to strip existing boons only because it would be ridiculous to try to prove that they are useless)
Booooring

Currently we spend 6% of daily mana income to maintain our boons (29 of 488). That's almost nothing. If we grant 10 minor boons (or 5 major) it will be 10% (49 of 488)  If we grant every citizen a minor boon, than total boon upkeep will be 25% ( 121 of 488)... that's pretty normal to return 1\10th of what we get from people back to them. it's far from bad to return 1\4th
And you make it look like we will spend majority of our income to boons if we add like ten of them

I'd very much prefer to give every worshiper a boon just from a roleplay point of view and  as a way to get worshipers - Worship Donut, pray for him at least 20 minutes per day and you'll get a minor boon instantly! He shares the power he gets from us! Quite an attraction. Quite a difference from other gods. If that was a single player game I would did that long time before. But I am not gonna push it here

But I will push boosting our farmers to let them doing their job several times better (yes we have farmers, and they are working, no we don't get food for free by "magic")
But I will push booning our mages to use their potential in future combats

Right now, more than half of our mana generation come from that souls we got from another afterlife. And we spent.. 0 mana to get first 137 and 200 mana to get another.... Had I didn't push my idea to visit the afterlife of former god and get his souls, our mana generation would be 2 times slower, but instead we would have several dozens of types of creatures!

As for boons usefulness, I expect new creature from the alchemist pretty soon with high chance for success... His major boon has been active... hmmm. 2 days? Thats 8 mana.  plus one more day to finish  that's 12
IMO not bad to have a new creature for that cost, how do you think?

[Ukrainian Ranger]

I understand that this will get nearly zero support... but just want to write what I would have done

Gifts of Donut
Condition to get the gift:
1) Have a soul, free will and no soul powered abilities (Like Tiberius)
2) Be an adult ( 16 year old or more)
3) Be alive
4) Have desire to have the gift and ask for it (right not a duty)
5) Swear to use  the power for the good of the community (Fail to do that and you may get stripped of the gift, or worse  - punished by the wraith of chaos and fire)
6) pray as much as you can (20 if near temple, 10 otherwise)

List of gifts for choice ( when requsting the gift. one may choose freely)

Gift of the plant: Minor plant boon(life)
Gift of the healer
Gift of the soothing Life boon that grants minor control over animals, natural or not
Gift of the childbearing   Minor life boon that let's to get pregnant more easier, makes twins\triplets much more likely, shorten pregnancy and increase health of the child. Also, helps with lactating, milk becomes magical and empower the child(s) further  (passive ability)

Gift of the fire : Just your usual fire throwing
Gift of the heat Fire boon that allows to modify temperature by touch, freeze or melt as you desire. (blacksmith and the like should like that. Firejacket tenders, too)
Gift of the dragon Fire boon that let you be friendly with firedrakes, dragons and other fire related creatures. More focused version of the soothing gift
Gift of the energy You are powered by internal fire. You need to eat less. Sleep less. Rest less (passive ability)

Gift of the protection Shield  that turns harmful elements into a safe or beneficial ones. Be at as minor as rain or as severe as enemy spell(passive ability)
Gift of the insights Ability to get ideas while crafting or otherwise improving something ( I mean, you can use that by asking how could I make this wall better and get an idea, not change the wall by magic. )
Gift of the luck Luck is one of the most chaotic thing you can find. Chaos god can help you improving it ( passive ability)

Main idea is to give people freedom not -  I decided to make you a mage of XXX,  Obey Slave!
And only few may get more than one gift, more powerful gift, or some special ones (like most chaos)

Before - let's concentrate all that gifts on one person: 1st - it's creating inequality... 2nd, I am afraid that it's dangerous for a mortal to have to many boons on him. ( I remember Demonhood, and literally exploding  our epic general by giving him to much power, don't want it here) 3rd. - That will make them priority targets for other gods. 4th Having that many boons on one person looks unbalancing and I suspect GM will counter that with something. 6th I suspect we can't give two different boons of one type only modify existing (In fact I suggest that to GM, to avoid  a silliness with dozens of boons on our mages, like potent boon of fire #1, major boon of fire #2, minor boon of fire #3.... That's ugly) 

 And I propose to use red color for asking the GM in OOC, so he can notice that without reading all the flood
______________________

Waiting for the guys who will say that population full of people like that is a waste of intolerable amount of mana  and they will be useless and it's better to make bird scouts instead

[Origami_Psycho]

Going back a fair bit, as far as making the stems sentient and then having us worry about them surviving isn't really a problem.  Currently we're being overprotective of our worshipers because we have very few of them.  We cannot afford to lose a single one.  By the time we're capable of making the stems a race we'll have so many of both them and the humans that it won't matter.  At the point where we have a few hundred followers getting even one hundred of them into the army won't really be a bad thing, since we can afford to lose them.

Also, no to booning the entire population, but, perhaps we could use it as a reward system.  If you're do something helpful to the economy/war effort/whatever or display unusual bravery or ingenuity we'll give you a mid level boon that we think suits you best for a week.  Or something like that.

EDIT: Bird scouts are stupid.  Everyone knows that bats are better.
EDIT2: You know what would make a great spec ops creature?  Slenderman.

[kahn1234]

I am rather sure that it's at leasts 3 maximum (if maxumum exist), Corruptor? Still we need to setup defense in the afterlife, this cracks appear too often

I dislike idea to move ourself undeground, we aren't dwarfs. We are  elves)

Ome thing to consider: Our forces (except some elite units)  are way, way, way too
a) melee
b) slow
c) alive

First we need to make much more firejackets by producing excess heat. They are useful for economics, but they are good for combat, too. We need some to spare (BTW, why did they stop to increase their numbers? The tree of fire was made for that purpose)

Secondly, we need soulless golems powered by fire magic (they need something burnable to eat), attacking with that fire. They shouldn't be alive. No life magic for them. Bonus if we can make them levitating (Krait's aid) and use jetlike propulsion. And if they will be childsized that's good, too. That's mean more of them. Such thing are impossible to kill by death or lightning and hard do crack by brute force. Hello, Maher

Thirdly.  We need to turn at least that 8 mage souls into booners , both for economical use ( plant) and pure combat. I don't get that antiboon movement at all... That's so much wasted potential. And they can be capable fighters (And motivated ones, they hate Justicars) 4 fire, 4 plant creaters. Nice magic support  for any combat. And useful in civilian life

And fortifactions\fortifacation\fortifactions. That's better than troops for the defensive war.

Use that rosebush to turn our land into boccage. It's damnedly bad terrain to advance through. Especially if boccage attacks you.
Upgrading chaos trees is also good
Old plain palicade can work, too
Land mines, pit traps with our spiders in them, poisonious plants

And don't forget about our flying fortress

We arent Elves, and why waste mana on giving boons to people who can already use magic and, once trained, will probably be much more powerful on their own without our help?

[Ukrainian Ranger]

  and why waste mana on giving boons to people who can already use magic and, once trained, will probably be much more powerful on their own without our help?

Wow! Another piece of brilliant logic :  Mage without a boon is stronger than a mage with a boon. Brilliant.

EDIT2: You know what would make a great spec ops creature?   

You know what will make great spec ops? Werewolfwes... if only we had them....

Currently we're being overprotective of our worshipers because we have very few of them. We cannot afford to lose a single one.

It's not entirely true, when worshiper dies we lose only 1\3 of his mana  generation. ( that means 1 death - 1 mana daily) not something that can kill us. And get a soul to use as we please

If you're do something helpful to the economy/war effort/whatever or display unusual bravery or ingenuity we'll give you a mid level boon that we think suits you best for a week.

Slaves, behave nicely and I may give you more power... to serve me better as I see fit.

By the time we're capable of making the stems a race we'll have so many of both them and the humans that it won't matter.

BTW, Did I mention that I plan to replace you all with plant race?

[jaass]

^ The problem with werewolves their feral, they are also incapable of independent thought needed to make spec-op units more effective. Although they will make excellent flankers or calvary due to their speed.

[Talvara]

^ The problem with werewolves their feral, they are also incapable of independent thought needed to make spec-op units more effective. Although they will make excellent flankers or calvary due to their speed.

the werewolves might deserver a closer look, we havent really looking into them after it turned out Laksus could keep them in line.

are the werewolves like creations? or more like twisted followers? do they have souls? or did they die and go to Mahers afterlife?

[Origami_Psycho]

What's wrong with Creating a reward system for our worshipers?  They aren't slaves, they can choose to worship us and they can choose to leave us.  We don't force 'em to.

[gman8181]

A reward system does not denote slavery.  It is just what it sounds like, a way of rewarding people who perform well.  In the military if you do something noteworthy you might get a metal.  That doesn't make them slaves, it's just rewarding them for doing something well.  We could basically do the same thing except instead of metals they would get the ability to shoot fire, grow plants, or warp the laws of reality.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

We can modify any troops we have, and it's probably easier than making something new. Werewolves can get upgraded in many ways

What's wrong with Creating a reward system for our worshipers? 

Rewards are for slaves\servants\serfs\kids\employees. Free people get rights.

They aren't slaves, they can choose to worship us and they can choose to leave us.  We don't force 'em to.

OK, change slaves to serfs or servants, same thing

In the military if you do something noteworthy you might get a metal.  That doesn't make them slaves, it's just rewarding them for doing something well.

Knew that this will be used. That's another category - employees. Or for conscripts: slaves

No, we don't rewarding good (obedient)  behavior, we are returning mana back to community in form of boons if we think that it's beneficial for it... Don't act as a damned king

[Origami_Psycho]

But we are a dammed king.

[Talvara]

But we are a dammed king.

not exactly, we're a benevolent God.

kings can do as they please aslong as they have their mandate or the power.
good kings will serve the people behind them rather than having the people behind them serve them.

the same can be said about gods I guess... Gods just looking out for themselves seeing followers as assets are a kind.
but benevolent gods shouldn't view their followers as assets.

...
No, we don't rewarding good (obedient)  behavior,
...

having a formal reward structure in place does sound very orderly to me, We should just keep doing what we've been doing with the boons. and just go at it on a case by case basis on our whims.

[GreatWyrmGold]

I dislike idea to move ourself undeground, we aren't dwarfs. We are  elves)

I don't think anyone was proposing we move everything underground. However, an underground chamber where we can grow stuff would be pretty useful, don't you think?

Ome thing to consider: Our forces (except some elite units)  are way, way, way too
a) melee
b) slow
c) alive

Hm...

First we need to make much more firejackets by producing excess heat. They are useful for economics, but they are good for combat, too. We need some to spare (BTW, why did they stop to increase their numbers? The tree of fire was made for that purpose)

Agreed. Making more firejackets improves both economic and military strength.

Secondly, we need soulless golems powered by fire magic (they need something burnable to eat), attacking with that fire. They shouldn't be alive. No life magic for them. Bonus if we can make them levitating (Krait's aid) and use jetlike propulsion. And if they will be childsized that's good, too. That's mean more of them. Such thing are impossible to kill by death or lightning and hard do crack by brute force. Hello, Maher

Excellent idea.

Thirdly.  We need to turn at least that 8 mage souls into booners , both for economical use ( plant) and pure combat. I don't get that antiboon movement at all... That's so much wasted potential. And they can be capable fighters (And motivated ones, they hate Justicars) 4 fire, 4 plant creaters. Nice magic support  for any combat. And useful in civilian life

No arguments here.

And fortifactions\fortifacation\fortifactions. That's better than troops for the defensive war.

Fortifications??

Use that rosebush to turn our land into boccage. It's damnedly bad terrain to advance through. Especially if boccage attacks you.

I'll take your word for it, because I'm not sure what a boccage is.

Upgrading chaos trees is also good
Old plain palicade can work, too
Land mines, pit traps with our spiders in them, poisonious plants

And don't forget about our flying fortress

All sounds good.

Oh no, our forces are too alive?

Given the number of death-based gods we face...it's a concern. At least make some more golems.

While golems might be nice, making thm eat flammable things, instead of just being animated by magic the same way Tiberius and Laskus are, is kinda unneeded.

Indeed. Stick a chunk of manarack in each.

We've gone up against Death Magic, true. Thwt's why we need synapse aura creature that suppress death magic in a field around them, like the opposite of those death fields the priest's had. But stronger. A lot stronger.

Hm...and what would the Life Field do when not supressing Death Fields?

We're a god of life. We shouldn't begin abandoning one of our domains, one of the most useful ones,msimply because we're facing something that has the opposite. You don't think we can't make trouble for death as much as it can for life? Should we give up Fire when going up waist Grumugga? Chaos when fighting Order? No. We use them to beat our foe's domain, by being clever, creative, and most of all, using overwhelming force in weak spots.

Don't abandon it, just don't overspecialize in it.

Oh and one more thing - why farm stems undeground, wasting huge resources to make that chambers,  if stems rise quite nicely in the forest?

The only resources we'd need to use would be making luminescent fungi, which would be useful in the flying fortress and for export to anyone who uses humans in their mines. And while the forest is nice, it's easier to wall off the village and the entrance to the Stem-Cave, letting us build huge forces back there.

I'd very much prefer to give every worshiper a boon just from a roleplay point of view and  as a way to get worshipers - Worship Donut, pray for him at least 20 minutes per day and you'll get a minor boon instantly! He shares the power he gets from us! Quite an attraction. Quite a difference from other gods. If that was a single player game I would did that long time before. But I am not gonna push it here

I quite agree with that point of view and am inspired to start a multiplayer game using the same mechanics. But I probably won't.

As for boons usefulness, I expect new creature from the alchemist pretty soon with high chance for success... His major boon has been active... hmmm. 2 days? Thats 8 mana.  plus one more day to finish  that's 12
IMO not bad to have a new creature for that cost, how do you think?

Agreed.
(I fully expect rate of discovery to drop later, but it'll still be decent.)

EDIT2: You know what would make a great spec ops creature?   

You know what will make great spec ops? Werewolfwes... if only we had them....

And a head werewolf to train them...

Currently we're being overprotective of our worshipers because we have very few of them. We cannot afford to lose a single one.

It's not entirely true, when worshiper dies we lose only 1\3 of his mana  generation. ( that means 1 death - 1 mana daily) not something that can kill us. And get a soul to use as we please

Just to point out...Or.

^ The problem with werewolves their feral, they are also incapable of independent thought needed to make spec-op units more effective. Although they will make excellent flankers or calvary due to their speed.

Yup, Laskus has shown himself to be utterly inept at spec-ops, he so didn't come up with the idea of "poisoning" goblin supplies with spores and only kills, kills, kills.

What's wrong with Creating a reward system for our worshipers? 

Rewards are for slaves\servants\serfs\kids\employees. Free people get rights.
...
No, we don't rewarding good (obedient)  behavior, we are returning mana back to community in form of boons if we think that it's beneficial for it... Don't act as a damned king

Well, we kinda are a king. And these people expect a king, most likely.
I suspect that there's a difference of opinion here, where both sides are right. One is thinking of what the people would be used to, the other of what they'd like most.
My opinion? Distribute plenty of power back, but tell the people that the great will be rewarded better than the terrible. Giving everyone equal power no matter their contributions breeds sloth and incompetence. It doesn't have to be orderly, but success, sacrifice, and such should be rewarded if we want to encourage that.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Regarding sacrifices...

Surely we shouldn't accept anything alive as a sacrifice, that's murder and don't suit us

But burning expensive inanimate things may be an interesting form of sacrafice to try. Especially if that is some form of expensive art or otherwise valuable item

______________
Lumiscient fungy... It may be useful to make trade tunnel to the dwarves I think we should make to become trading megapower. I'd even support making several moles for the project

Really, having roads to different settlements, setuping a market, inviting traders to trade, take a modest tax, is a sure way to become an economical superpower. Also, people tend to travel by roads, being a junction will lead travelers to us, some may decide to worship us... Even if they don't, they will spread the word about us

[jaass]

^ If we are going to do dig a huge underground structure we are going to have set-up numerous back-up plans or redundancies.