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Author Topic: You are a new God OOC thread.  (Read 110633 times)

Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: You are a new God OOC thread.
« Reply #435 on: January 23, 2013, 10:01:10 pm »

My idea for the after tournament (and next mana income)

1) Grant Eldrick minor chaos boon, plant mutation one, added to his plant creation
2) grant him 5 apprenticies\assistances with minor plant boons (I'd propose ten, but..)
3) Grant  Azula chaos shield boon (shield that turns hostile elements into unharmful ones)
4) Grant her five minor boon apprenticies (preferably mage souls)
5) Say that you are leaving to the afterlife to improve it and order not to worry you, unless
a) Fortress is finished
b) We got attacked
c) Some god wants to see us badly
6) Order Eldrick and his assistant to do all that improvements I proposed many times
7) Order Azula to train fire mages and multiply firejackets in process
8) Spend as much time (if that means several days, OK) and mana as we can in the afterlife improving it's defenses and, maybe, trying to expand it even more. This time by adding new things, not merely more of the same. We should try to get it to *3 standard
9) Return when castle is ready\we have a major problem
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: You are a new God OOC thread.
« Reply #436 on: January 23, 2013, 10:07:51 pm »

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You haven't addressed my points...and you're assuming that XP is a major game element.
Xp is a major game element, it gives +1 to that magic. And I did address your points.
That requires you to actually respond to the reasoning given, notably the fact that the "XP" given would be multiplied by five people.

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1. Oh, sure, evangelism may be assumed to be worthless.
2. If you don't spend money, what good is it?
1. The civilians may have not been compelled by the evangelism. For all we know, they may have assumed we were evil, although it's not likely. We just don't know yet, and so you cannot say that evangelism is worthwhile.
Oh, sure. The god sending priests healing around is obviously evil, and we can't assume even a single person was moved.

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2. If we don't spend mana, we can send it later. Wouldn't it be nice to have more than 0 mana in a battle for once?
True enough...but we mustn't be misers.

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Well, you actually did. Also, since we, quote, "just increased the need substantially," it is quite possible that our consumption rates outstrip the regrowth rates.
Never said anything like that. If I did, show me. And if indeed we are now consuming faster than it is being replenished, we are still getting more bushes since we are not eating the seeds, so that won't be a problem for long.
It would be easier if you didn't keep severing links to my posts...oh, wait, someone else. Sorry.
You're not familiar with how plant growth works, are you? Barring magic, it takes time. Besides, people have eaten plants into extinction before IRL--explain that.

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Au contrare. There's real-world evidence on the first, putting aside how unlikely it is that Corruptor would have let us send some people off on an unexpectedly Wild Goose type of chase. As for the second, that's mathematics.
1. real world evidence has nothing to do with this since it is fictional. 2. We just don't know. If it is effective, it could be not worthwhile. Attracting 1 person is not much for our work.
1. Oh, right, this world has people whose psychology is utterly divorced from real-world peoples'.
2. If we attract an average of three more people over the whole evangelizing lifetime of a booned person than we would have without the boon, it's a profit. And that's assuming that the additional power gained from those worshipers doesn't let us get more worshipers or other benefits (e.g, a nobleman who gets a bunch of food given to him helps us build a temple on his land or something).

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You misunderstood what I said, and we "don't need" Life Booners because we're not using them. A surplus of food always helps, to say nothing of what happens when we make new plants...]
If we don't need Life Booners, we shouldn't make them. And a surplus of food does not always help. If you have more food then you can use, then that money for the surplus could have been spent on things that are immediately useful, like expanding the afterlife. And when we make more plants to make Life Booners more useful, we can make more life booners. Also,
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2. The people that will hopefully be flocking to us, or who we build homes for to evangelize?
is where you said it.
We "don't need" Life Booners because some of us don't see how they could be useful. They could boost our economy, help the world, and earn us the favor of people around the region. How is a surplus of food not useful? We could sell/gift the food around, or save it for a rainy (more likely dry/war-torn) year. Oh, and the thing about homes was meant to mean "build homes for the people converted by evangelization," which was more clunky but evidently more clear.

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If we grow food hundreds or thousands of times as fast...that removes pretty much the only cost. With a few Life Booners focused on growing meatmelons* and wheat, we can sell food to other villagers for just about as little as we like and still turn a profit. Capitalism, ho!
*Which could sell for more. Meat is considered a luxury food in real-world medieval times, so a substitute would be roughly analogous to imitation lobster or something, which sells for more (pound-for-pound) than bread.
We do not know how much these will sell for.  And growing things with magic to sell for silver is converting mana into silver. We have better ways of doing that, so we don't need to be using less efficient methods.
1. So? If it's basically free, it's basically free money.
2. We're not turning mana into mere silver, we're turning it into goodwill from others nearby, improving the quality-of-life of many less fortunate individuals, potential converts, food surpluses, and truckloads of silver.

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Oh, sure. Let's ignore common sense and assume evangelism does nothing. [/sarcasm]
We just don't know. I refer you to my above response. Stop assuming completely unproven things and just wait a day or two, so we can guage if it is a good enough use of mana and manpower. And common sense is nothing more than guesswork.
WELL SORRY FOR ASSUMING THAT SENDING AROUND IMPORTANT MIRACLE-MEN WOULD RECRUIT PEOPLE LIKE IT WOULD IN REAL LIFE INSTEAD OF INEXPLICABLY AND UNMENTIONEDLY DOING ABSOLUTELY SQUAT.
Seriously, there's meta and in-world reasons for evangelism to do stuff. We might as well not assume that we can expand the afterlife any more.

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What makes you think Maher made vampires?
For one, he's a death god. For another, vampires aren't living, and therefore have no soul, so they could not have been a preexisting race. Third, how would such a race come to be otherwise?
1. So? He's not the only Death God, and Death isn't the only sphere that could create vampires.
2. Vampirism isn't a race, it's a curse.
3. Creation by another god. Maybe a god of Blood, or Curses? Or one of the other Gods of Death? Your assumptions could hold just as well for assuming that the Empire of Tranquility's one god made vampires. There's less proof of Maher making vampires than there is of evangelism being able to work, so you can't assume that by your own logic.

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Life boons are a lot more versatile than fire boons. Look at Eldrick; he's done everything from making bushes spring up in combat to making mushrooms into buildings with that little power of his. Fire? It burns. That's about it.
Let's represent this one mathematically. Yes, L > F. However, L+F> L, because we know fire is useful in some things.
Fire is useful in some things. But...let me use a D&D metaphor.
Evocation is useful in combat. Transfiguration can be useful in combat, and everything else. Therefore, munchkins more often play transfigurers.
Life boons can be used in combat. Eldrick's trick isn't the only possibility. Entangling vines? Poison ivy? Thorns? Some sort of new plant we make and hand out seeds for? The sky is the limit!

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...How is that relevant to saying she's the "least tested"?
I said she's the most tested, not the least, and thus is most likely to be able to control a chaos boon.
Mentioned that I misread that.
How are Chaos and Fire related?

Most game systems I play have leveling but no XP.
Example, please? Sounds awesome.

When did anyone say that being alive was a requirement for having a soul? Our followers in the afterlife are dead. They have souls.
They don't have souls, they are souls. Their dead bodies have no souls.
However, moving "dead" bodies could. Especially since Laskus's soul was a soul.
Oh, and couldn't vampires be alive?

My idea for the after tournament (and next mana income)

1) Grant Eldrick minor chaos boon, plant mutation one, added to his plant creation
2) grant him 5 apprenticies\assistances with minor plant boons (I'd propose ten, but..)
3) Grant  Azula chaos shield boon (shield that turns hostile elements into unharmful ones)
4) Grant her five minor boon apprenticies (preferably mage souls)
5) Say that you are leaving to the afterlife to improve it and order not to worry you, unless
a) Fortress is finished
b) We got attacked
c) Some god wants to see us badly
Approval.

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6) Order Eldrick and his assistant to do all that improvements I proposed many times
Which ones?

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7) Order Azula to train fire mages and multiply firejackets in process
8) Spend as much time (if that means several days, OK) and mana as we can in the afterlife improving it's defenses and, maybe, trying to expand it even more. This time by adding new things, not merely more of the same. We should try to get it to *3 standard
9) Return when castle is ready\we have a major problem
No problems. Although isn't the Afterlife big enough to hold its current souls?

Oh, and on the subject of improving the Afterlife: I was right, significantly increasing the size of the Afterlife costed more than the initial cost.
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Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: You are a new God OOC thread.
« Reply #437 on: January 23, 2013, 10:19:06 pm »

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Which ones?
Construct Palisade (together with the carpenter)
Expanding the rose bush
Making new kinds of crops (from growable ammunitions, to simple stuff like glue or poison)
Beautification
Strengthening stems\corrupted trees\fungus spawns
and so on
But we should let our booned be creative on how to improve our land and our army

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No problems. Although isn't the Afterlife big enough to hold its current souls?
Yep, but defenders are needed, and we may get ambitious and try to improve it to *3 standard by adding pleasant things (IMO, Just increasing space will not help)
Afterlife is our base, in case if everything else screwed. + Major mana producer (It produces more than real world currently)
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War must be, while we defend our lives against a destroyer who would devour all; but I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.

GreatWyrmGold

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Re: You are a new God OOC thread.
« Reply #438 on: January 23, 2013, 10:38:44 pm »

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No problems. Although isn't the Afterlife big enough to hold its current souls?
Yep, but defenders are needed, and we may get ambitious and try to improve it to *3 standard by adding pleasant things (IMO, Just increasing space will not help)
Afterlife is our base, in case if everything else screwed. + Major mana producer (It produces more than real world currently)
Hm. Good points...still, if it's about at maximum--
Wait, is the maximum per soul 2 mana or 3?
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jaass

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Re: You are a new God OOC thread.
« Reply #439 on: January 23, 2013, 10:46:49 pm »

We should at least converse with the justicars you know break down some barrier within his mind. Plus, we should see how smart are these Troglodites.
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Rolepgeek

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Re: You are a new God OOC thread.
« Reply #440 on: January 23, 2013, 11:01:16 pm »

I think it's two, GWG, and I'd really rather not end up revealing something to this Justicar, or waste the ten mana trying to talk with him when it would accomplish nothing. He's a Templar. He HATES chaos. I suggested letting them be treated well, and see our goings on, because it's more beneficial to show people than tell them. He might come around to seeing that even though we're chaos, we aren't "destroy everything bwahahaha" and so convince his god to be a bit more lenient. Yes, lenient. We're utterly and totally fucked if they send their armies at us.

Speaking of which, we need to start building our army like a sumbitch. Get it fucking UP. I would like us to start getting a few thousand Stems every week. To facilitate this? Make more moles. Have a few of them start digging out subterranean chambers, closely watched by dwarves, and a few farmers, to ensure the right amount of pillar support, irrigation possibilities, and soil thickness. Stone can become soil by putting moss on it, and running it through it's life very, very quickly to break it down. Then, get some luminescent fungus on the ceilings for light. And we have growing chambers. For just about anything.
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: You are a new God OOC thread.
« Reply #441 on: January 23, 2013, 11:26:47 pm »

Didn't we send the Justicar to Maher?

And I agree with that plan, except that we should put the luminescent fungus on the ceiling before we grow moss, and that we use Boon-Enhanced people to make it grow faster (rather than waste our power doing so--Boons seem to be more efficient).
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Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: You are a new God OOC thread.
« Reply #442 on: January 23, 2013, 11:51:33 pm »

I am rather sure that it's at leasts 3 maximum (if maxumum exist), Corruptor? Still we need to setup defense in the afterlife, this cracks appear too often

I dislike idea to move ourself undeground, we aren't dwarfs. We are  elves)

Ome thing to consider: Our forces (except some elite units)  are way, way, way too
a) melee
b) slow
c) alive

First we need to make much more firejackets by producing excess heat. They are useful for economics, but they are good for combat, too. We need some to spare (BTW, why did they stop to increase their numbers? The tree of fire was made for that purpose)

Secondly, we need soulless golems powered by fire magic (they need something burnable to eat), attacking with that fire. They shouldn't be alive. No life magic for them. Bonus if we can make them levitating (Krait's aid) and use jetlike propulsion. And if they will be childsized that's good, too. That's mean more of them. Such thing are impossible to kill by death or lightning and hard do crack by brute force. Hello, Maher

Thirdly.  We need to turn at least that 8 mage souls into booners , both for economical use ( plant) and pure combat. I don't get that antiboon movement at all... That's so much wasted potential. And they can be capable fighters (And motivated ones, they hate Justicars) 4 fire, 4 plant creaters. Nice magic support  for any combat. And useful in civilian life

And fortifactions\fortifacation\fortifactions. That's better than troops for the defensive war.

Use that rosebush to turn our land into boccage. It's damnedly bad terrain to advance through. Especially if boccage attacks you.
Upgrading chaos trees is also good
Old plain palicade can work, too
Land mines, pit traps with our spiders in them, poisonious plants

And don't forget about our flying fortress
« Last Edit: January 24, 2013, 06:32:19 am by Ukrainian Ranger »
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Rolepgeek

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Re: You are a new God OOC thread.
« Reply #443 on: January 24, 2013, 12:04:57 am »

Oh no, our forces are too alive? I agree with the melee thing, which is why I've suggested often that we make them grow ranged weapons. We aren't elves, that's Serena. We aren't moving everything underground, we're getting more space to grow an army where we can keep an easy eye on it. I agree with the slow, which is why we need animal based troops, who would be far faster, especially with our care.

While golems might be nice, making thm eat flammable things, instead of just being animated by magic the same way Tiberius and Laskus are, is kinda unneeded. We've gone up against Death Magic, true. Thwt's why we need synapse aura creature that suppress death magic in a field around them, like the opposite of those death fields the priest's had. But stronger. A lot stronger. As well, we won't always be facing Death, that was a single type of guild thing we were going up against of the Justicars, and finally, I doubt anything past us countering death magic directly would help, considering that as a fire dies down...do you see it? Death can be seen as an end, while life is the continuation. I doubt it, but it's something to consider. We're a god of life. We shouldn't begin abandoning one of our domains, one of the most useful ones,msimply because we're facing something that has the opposite. You don't think we can't make trouble for death as much as it can for life? Should we give up Fire when going up waist Grumugga? Chaos when fighting Order? No. We use them to beat our foe's domain, by being clever, creative, and most of all, using overwhelming force in weak spots.
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Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: You are a new God OOC thread.
« Reply #444 on: January 24, 2013, 12:19:52 am »

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Oh no, our forces are too alive? 
Exactly. Alive = target for death magic

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While golems might be nice, making thm eat flammable things, instead of just being animated by magic the same way Tiberius and Laskus are,
Abilities of Tiberius and Laksus are powered by their souls, not some sourceless magic.

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We shouldn't begin abandoning one of our domains
No, but we should not overuse one of our domains

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Thwt's why we need synapse aura creature that suppress death magic in a field around them, like the opposite of those death fields the priest's had But stronger. A lot stronger.
Your solution - outnumber everything? Bad one considering our limited resources. We aren't Russia

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  Should we give up Fire when going up waist Grumugga? Chaos when fighting Order?
Short answer - yes

It's like... I don't know... not sending tanks to fight into the city filled with infantry. Or not using assault helicopters to attack jet fighters when it can be done by other jets . It's not abandoning tanks or aviation, it's having other options,

Yes, making tank more protected against infantry, or Helicopters more protected against enemy jet fighter is a necessary thing, but better not use them against their most dangerous enemy at all

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I doubt anything past us countering death magic directly would help, considering that as a fire dies down...do you see it?
Ok, maybe not 100% immune, but way more immune than animals
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War must be, while we defend our lives against a destroyer who would devour all; but I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.

jaass

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Re: You are a new God OOC thread.
« Reply #445 on: January 24, 2013, 12:21:49 am »

^ This is what we need for an army. Anyways, I still think we need specialize troops for unconventional warfare since it is proven that the EoT's justicars suck at this aspect. During peacetime they can be used a pseudo scouts or killing orcs for sport.
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Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: You are a new God OOC thread.
« Reply #446 on: January 24, 2013, 12:25:26 am »

Oh and one more thing - why farm stems undeground, wasting huge resources to make that chambers,  if stems rise quite nicely in the forest?
« Last Edit: January 24, 2013, 12:27:54 am by Ukrainian Ranger »
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Rolepgeek

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Re: You are a new God OOC thread.
« Reply #447 on: January 24, 2013, 12:33:28 am »

A. Not a huge waste of resources. Stems in the first will shove aside any other life in the area, overue the soil, and be difficult to find space for. Plus, underground can be used for many different plants. Speaking of which, we should grow some peanuts.

Our forces are alive. Our followers alive. Should we kill our followers so that they aren't targets for death magic? You use that analogy, but it's incorrect. Death doesn't beat life. It's not a thing where death just always beats it, or water beats fire. If we abandon a domain, we lose a whole aspect of how to fight. It's like having attack helicopters, light infantry, and tanks. We go up against light infantry, heavy infantry, and jets, so we say 'fuck it, let's get rid of all our helicopters for this one.' No. That's not what you do. You have your helicopters supported by the other two.

Also, tanks beat the shit out of infantry. So there's that.

But the thing is, you seem to have the idea that all of our creations will fall apart at the merest touch of death magic. But think about what we've faced. All the justicars death boons really did was make them immune to spores, (I don't think they shot death cones or the like, or if it worked if they did,) and Maher's priests had slow, weak acting death fields. That's about it.
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Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: You are a new God OOC thread.
« Reply #448 on: January 24, 2013, 12:53:35 am »

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A. Not a huge waste of resources. Stems in the first will shove aside any other life in the area, overue the soil, and be difficult to find space for. 
Someone missed important facts, again. We don't plant stems on the plots anymore
And it is a huge waste of resources 1) we make moles 2) we make that luminescent thing to make sunlight 3) we spend workforce to reinforce those chambers.
All that can be used better. Maybe some fungus farming letter, but not now, aboveground farming is just easier

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We go up against light infantry, heavy infantry, and jets, so we say 'fuck it, let's get rid of all our helicopters for this one.'
Yes, get rid of helicopters until you get rid of enemy fighters somehow. No sane commander will send helicopter before air superiority is won.

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But the thing is, you seem to have the idea that all of our creations will fall apart at the merest touch of death magic.
I expect to meet stronger death magic. Because we faced
a) Backward maher's village
b) Group of justicars with minor boons that just hunted some civilians, police not army.

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Our forces are alive. Our followers alive. Should we kill our followers so that they aren't targets for death magic? 
Don't you see any difference between - "Do not use life" and " Do not use only life?" Or you just want to troll a bit?
« Last Edit: January 24, 2013, 12:56:05 am by Ukrainian Ranger »
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War must be, while we defend our lives against a destroyer who would devour all; but I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.

kahn1234

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Re: You are a new God OOC thread.
« Reply #449 on: January 24, 2013, 03:44:03 am »

(that's even costlier then boons)

we are talking about a guy who was in service to a God who controls at least 2 dozen villages and a large city.

We have a small village and 140 souls in the afterlife. w get 350 mana per day.

Maher has several hundred times our population, plus an afterlife that is most likely containing at least double his living followers (he's much older than us).

and, for the record, i dont think boons are useless, i think giving too many boons is useless and also diminishes the importance of boons.
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