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[10ebbor10]

Utopia. An ideal, but ultimately impossible world. Something that everyone looks for, yet nobody can exactly define. After all, one man's dream can be the others worst nightmare.

Spoiler: Rules of discussion (click to show/hide)

1. Forum rules
2. Be nice
3. If you present facts, please be so kind to add a source.
   a)This will quite possible be rather philosophical, so not everything will be based in reality. We're talking about Utopiae, after all
4. Try to prevent confusion by kindly noting what kind of Utopia you're talking about. Some examples are given, but you don't need to limit yourself to those

Different version of Utopia.

-Social Utopia

Basically, all humans living peacefully together by a certain code of conduct. What said code of Conduct is, remains to be seen.

-Scientific Utopia

Science solved the world's problems, ensuring everyone is happy ever after.

-Autarchial utopia

Somebody solved the world's problems, and is ensuring everyone is happy ever after.

And just some general questions:

What is an Utopia? Does it ensure the happyness of those who live in, or their productivity, survival chance, or just the survival chance of the human race?
Are we allowed to hurt others to maintain or establish our ideals?
Would you want to live in a world without pain, fear/ all other negative emotions?
Is there place for love in an ideal world? Because, aside for being a wonderfull emotion, it's also a cause for a great amount of pain?
What should the central values of our Utopia be ?

[Neonivek]

Well according to Marx a utopian society will have to start as a Capitalist society in order to bring forth the maximum productive potential.

So a Utopian society will likely have to go through capitalism.

[10ebbor10]

a utoptian society would, I guess, be one where everyone is always happy.

Which is basically impossible.

Hook everyone up to a lifesupport machine and drug the hell out of them?

[King DZA]

I suppose I'd personally define a utopia as a time/place where everyone is free to pursue their dreams and live life to its fullest, while at the same time having enough general respect and compassion toward other forms of life to sustain a peaceful, functioning society. Though I don't really see that as being a completely impossible thing to achieve.

[Loud Whispers]

I suppose I'd personally define a utopia as a time/place where everyone is free to pursue their dreams and live life to its fullest, while at the same time having enough general respect and compassion toward other forms of life to sustain a peaceful, functioning society. Though I don't really see that as being a completely impossible thing to achieve.

This God King is wise.

[Gamerlord]

Posting to watch.

[SalmonGod]

I've come to resent the word utopia.  It's almost always used as a pejorative accusation, weighed against anyone who proposes a need for change.  I think it's actually the most common strawman.  The accusation implies that anyone who believes in a possibility of a better world actually believes in a perfect world, which supposedly renders all ideas pointless because the perfect world is unattainable.  Of course, most people have beliefs about what would better the world, but would never accuse themselves of this.  It's just a way to dodge out of honest evaluation.

[misko27]

I would think the word refers to a world where the problems have gone, where the newspapers devote themselves to trivial matters, and while no one is always happy, there's nothing stopping you from happiness but you.

[sneakey pete]

Since its impossible to happen, I believe that is impossible, or at least, worthless, to define. It can have everything mentioned so far as far as I care, any one of the points isn't ever going to actually happen.

[10ebbor10]

Since its impossible to happen, I believe that is impossible, or at least, worthless, to define. It can have everything mentioned so far as far as I care, any one of the points isn't ever going to actually happen.

Defining the impossible is never worthless.

[Scelly9]

PTW

[EveryZig]

Since its impossible to happen, I believe that is impossible, or at least, worthless, to define. It can have everything mentioned so far as far as I care, any one of the points isn't ever going to actually happen.

Defining the impossible is never worthless.

It is sometimes worthless, but is often fun.
Still, in this case there is definitely worth to discussing perfection (well, as far as you can have worth in a casual internet conversation but that is a different question). The fact that the world cannot achieve a given ideal does not mean that the world cannot get closer to or further from that ideal.


On the subject of getting rid of getting rid of negative emotions, I am not sure there actually are negative emotions to begin with. While emotions often cause negative results, and some are known primarily for those, every emotion I can think of serves essential purpose in appropriately small amounts. Fear, for example, is a part of assessing and avoiding hazards, and pain is a method for telling if harm has been taken or nearly taken. Sadness and regret play into learning from our mistakes, and anger is used as a motivator to react to problems. On the other hand, these systems are still problematic fairly often, but the question of whether you could replace them for a better version goes wayyy out into some kind of theoretical psycho-neurology.

[DarkWolfXV]

Utopia is not possible, because, one side wants totally opposite thing than the other side, and a compromise wont be as fulfilling and one side wont be happy. Everyone happy, is basically everyone dead.
Because the dead dont care.

[penguinofhonor]

Therefore my utopia is one where everyone agrees with me.

[10ebbor10]

Just as a general note, the word utopia itself indicates that it's not possible. So stop arguing about the stuff that we already now.

The point of this thread was to find out what people thought an utopia to be. Ie, what would your ideal civilization be? And the sometimes "horrific" consequences thereoff.
Afterall, if the main point of your utopia is to have happy people, and the goal justifies the means, you could send out squads kidnapping people, put them in comatose state and flood their brains with endorphines. Everyone hapy.

I've come to resent the word utopia.  It's almost always used as a pejorative accusation, weighed against anyone who proposes a need for change.  I think it's actually the most common strawman.  The accusation implies that anyone who believes in a possibility of a better world actually believes in a perfect world, which supposedly renders all ideas pointless because the perfect world is unattainable.  Of course, most people have beliefs about what would better the world, but would never accuse themselves of this.  It's just a way to dodge out of honest evaluation.

Agreed, but this is about what that perfect world actually is. And besides, it's not because the end of the journey is unnatainable that the direction in which you travel doesn't matter.