Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[TheDarkStar]

This is DF, the more impressively your fortress dies, the more points you get.

[Nasikabatrachus]

10 points: argue that there should be no way to win on the DF forums.
20 points: role play as a dwarf discovering the Internet on the DF forums.
30 points: role play as a dwarf discovering the Internet on the rest of the Internet.
40 points: role play as a dwarf transported into a real human's body and become a vulcanologist in order to study magma and lava, spending an entire career like this.
50 points: utilize said magma and lava.

[Aerie]

There really shouldn't be any victory conditions. Dwarf Fortress isn't a game to be won, it's more of a simulation to be played out to any possible number of conclusions or until you get bored.

[Mohreb el Yasim]

"what should they be?"
please, none !
(hate games with victory conditions, as they are
-end of game
-min/maxing
-no more diverging but converging strategyies
-"hey look, i have the bigger/faster/more succesfull!" - style comunity deteriorations

[Rutilant]

If I my smiths forged Keening, Sunder, and Wraithguard in strange moods and I opened up a cavern containing the heart of Lorkhan, you can be darn sure the next thing I'd be telling them to do is hit it!  Causing your own race's total erasure from your plane of existence sounds like the closest thing to a Dwarven Victory Condition I've ever heard.

[Naryar]

"what should they be?"
please, none !
(hate games with victory conditions, as they are
-end of game
-min/maxing
-no more diverging but converging strategyies
-"hey look, i have the bigger/faster/more succesfull!" - style comunity deteriorations

You're taking this thread seriously ? By "victory" we really mean losing in exceptional, original, or amusing ways.

You shouldn't be able to win, this is a roguelike, you don't win, you win when you lose.

except more than 95% of roguelikes can be won... it's just absurdly difficult.

[SixOfSpades]

Just to be clear, when I talk about victory conditions, I'm talking about things like people posting on the forum with things like,
Poster: "Hey guys, I built my fortress INSIDE a giant magma piston. When the invaders outside included a mounted goblin siege, 3 slain and zombified caravans (1 human, 2 elven), a herd of skeletal water buffalo, and a Cyclops, I Pulled The Lever. The entire fort dropped 7 z-levels and sent 25 x 25 x 7 tiles of magma shooting up into the air. The roof of my piston/fort is sloped, so all the magma went pouring off toward the various invaders. Here's a screenshot of the aftermath. Out of my 129 dwarves, I have 37 who are still somewhat able to tend to the 19 dead and of course all of the other wounded. Oddly enough, many of the dwarves are still ecstatic. Did I Win?"
Others: "Not quite, there are a few goblin stragglers in the corner there that seem likely to be caught by the magma. If you'd paved the entire outside map with lignite or coke first, then you would have won."

I'm not talking about situations where the game tells you, "Congratulations! You won!" That would be rather anticlimactic.

[Baccar Wozat]

Someone should make a Bingo card of this. With little thumbnails of bad things happening to badly-drawn dwarves.

[simonthedwarf]

Should we enforce force, or force enforcement?

[Tevish Szat]

Winning in DF is having fun.  Having fun in DF is derived from losing...

Or, once in a blue moon, building a hyper-impressive uberfort that dies the FPS death.  that will be abolished in the next version, leaving the "Win" conditions of DF to be "die the most spectacular death you can devise" or "Reach a point where you can step away from your fort content with what you have created" -- which already exists, but abandoning an otherwise successful low fps fort doesn't feel as good as having the retirement option probably will

[Cheedows]

I hope it is possible to "retire' your fortress without it going to oblivion so you can visit a fully-functional one in Adventure Mode.  For me a victory is seeing how many civilizations can you piss off, eventually dying by several different enemies, everyone murdering each other in joyous blood lust.  Or, having a last stand of 120 wrestlers against a siege.

[Orange Wizard]

You shouldn't be able to win, this is a roguelike, you don't win, you win when you lose.

Which means you lose when you win? And if you lose, then you win. So either way, you win.

You don't lose when you win, because you can't win, except by losing. It's an infinitely recurring loop of failure!

[TruePikachu]

You shouldn't be able to win, this is a roguelike, you don't win, you win when you lose.

...wat

I beat NetHack offline and twice on NAO. I came here because I was starting to get bored of NH.

Proof of winning:
http://alt.org/nethack/userdata/T/TruePikachu/dumplog/1332029859.nh343.txt
http://alt.org/nethack/userdata/T/TruePikachu/dumplog/1320536847.nh343.txt

Your argument is invalid.

-----------------------------

Did you mean that this is a _sandbox_? Because it is, and there are no winning conditions for sandboxes, nor should there be. Sandboxes are about creativity, not winning. Heck, my friend who introduced me to NetHack (which indirectly introduced me to DF) only beat the game once, and I don't think he has played again ever since. But Dwarf Fortress, as a sandbox, with no victory condition established, cannot truely be beaten. And if it were to, a lot of the fans might end up leaving it for something else.

[simonthedwarf]

I think a lot of players are scared of the thought of a possible way to "win" belittling their creative efforts or characteristic enjoyment of DF by pursuing their own goals. But do we really have evidence that these players would not do so regardless of a formal victory condition? Sounds carpy to me.

[slink]

I think a lot of players are scared of the thought of a possible way to "win" belittling their creative efforts or characteristic enjoyment of DF by pursuing their own goals. But do we really have evidence that these players would not do so regardless of a formal victory condition? Sounds carpy to me.

Possibly it is the collateral changes adding a win condition to the game would bring to both the game and the community, that concerns those of us who enjoy sandboxes.  For example, I enjoyed playing Daggerfall pursuing my own goals rather than the ones intended, but in the sequels to Daggerfall that was more difficult.  The sequels continually pushed the player towards the intended goals, interfering with freeform play.  This was perceived as helpful for those who desired to complete the intended goals, and had no other plans.