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help i'm trapped in a poll i don't know why i'm here i'm so scared someone please help

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Total Members Voted: 50

[GreatWyrmGold]

Oh wait,...... Maybe the Super Bright Light coming from the sky that needs power.... Because Plants need light....

That was my thought, actually.

[mastahcheese]

Oh wait,...... Maybe the Super Bright Light coming from the sky that needs power.... Because Plants need light....

That was my thought, actually.

Yeah, that makes more sense.

[hops]

IDEA: What if the Warrens was an elaborate fraud by ___ the Awesome in order to sell shopkeeper wares? All adventurers come in knowing of their background, but ___ the Awesome (who will always take on the name as a backwards of the newcomer) will use his illusion magic and general trickery to make them doubt themselves, and also convince them that the Warrens is named "Warrens of (reversed adventurer name) the Awesome". Then he will begin to make them think that they are the Target, the ever-respawning of the Six Siblings. As they advance on, thinking that the android denizens of the Warrens are real people (it was actually illusion), they try to confront ____ the Awesome, and forced to expend his resources to defeat the "Siblings". Cain was ____'s co-founder, but soon he grew sickened of their cowardly ways of wheezing money, and attempted to destroy the Warrens. ___ then imprisoned him and used illusion magics to make him think he's one of the Siblings, and the poor fools who dared venture into the Warrens would meet their end at the hand of the brainwashed Cain...

[Harbingerjm]

and for the love of Slog come up with a better plan than "run in there and stab everybody/everydroid."

and for the love of Slog come up with a better plan than "run in there and stab everybody/everydroid."

You, sir, are no Adventurer.

This plan has never worked well, and in fact has gotten ourselves and our party members killed on multiple occasions. We actually have the opportunity to have a plan going into the fight, we should take advantage of that!

I agree. That was my attempt at a jest based on our past habits. Apparently it failed.

interrogate the hell out of Cherish as to how exactly Al and Riltia are imprisoned,

We don't have to interogate her, she's on our side, for reals this time.

I meant interrogate in a strictly non-hostile fashion; substitute with "politely but thoroughly question" if it pleases you.

+1

That was my point.

Ok, to clarify here, when I say "predictable" I mean "it can be easily predicted that it is likely to happen in some cycles" not "you can easily predict it will happen every cycle."

Yes, and...?

See: "my base point which is that it's not likely to break the cycles." If it's likely to have been anticipated by whoever set the cycles up, it's not likely to be something that causes the system to collapse.

It's important to Oric, and Oric is in control of a lot. Oric will use that control to make sure things are the ways he wants it to be, which if the last cycles ended as badly for the Target as it seems from the fact that he started in power and Ciro didn't, are how the last cycle (and maybe the cycles before them) ended--with the Target losing and Oric on top.

Agreed, but that's not really important to my base point which is that it's not likely to break the cycles.
Though, it might change them significantly. I wonder, does Oric want the Target dead because the Target is the one who can replace him?

Change.
Precisely.
That's what this is about (I think)--ways that this is different from previous cycles.

Ok, I'm going to have to go back and re-read this conversation, because one of us has gone completely off-track here.

Or...they were designed by a crazy guy. Or they could be remodeled slowly on a large scale. Or there was a magma pit in the original designs.

Except that that's contradicted by DL2.

Tell me, what major modifications are there? The drained pools? That's about all I noticed.

Off the top of my head, the room/door arrangement changed, as did the flooring in some areas.

Then why did the Warrens system care how much oxygen was left in the Greens? They're part of the Underside.

... That's the point. The Underside's life support system got taken out, so it had to fall back on the Greens.

What if...
...the Greens are the Life Support system?

They're part of it, certainly. When I said that the system got taken out, I meant stuff like whatever is circulating the air. With that down, the Greens can't keep up.

Same way it helped with Riltia.

Yeah, even if we return him to human form I don't see him just overlooking Al throwing him into a pit of acid for the hell of it.
Especially not considering Al was the one to push him into the Warrens in the first place.

[EmeraldWind]

before I used that to support a theory that the dungeons somehow autorepair.

I'm not saying that the dungeons must be autorepair, I'm saying that they can be quickly and easily remodelled on a very large scale. Whether that was done by Oric, Proxxy, the Angels, the Dungeon itself, or someone else entirely doesn't really matter.

FFS said that the proto-name for the game was "Self Extending Dungeon".

I think the implications of that name speak for itself. But we already know that Proxxy has no control over the RNG from her dialog in the Sinful Intermission. The Angel statue thing also seems to imply automated deployment and flushing of rooms as well as automated creation of new rooms when the number of not yet deployed rooms hits a low threshold. But we also know from the keyboard/command prompt puzzle that the rooms can be interacted with somehow, but we never really confirmed how due to not experimenting enough/intelligently/intelligently enough on the puzzle. (Granted some people seemed to be on the right track with figuring it out. We just should have tested a few more commands particularly the Exit command.) We also know from Oric and Spira that they were checking the dungeon for inconsistencies in the room generation.

It seems that the dungeon does random room generation on its own periodically, but it also seems that the Warden is in charge of the inspection of the dungeon.  Whether the Warden has any ability to preform maintenance on the dungeon is unknown at this point, but it does look to be the case when they send Proxxy to Cain's prison as well as the Command Prompt puzzle that Siblings can do some form of maintenance or interaction.

Also on the note of "Self Extending Dungeon". FFS said that while the random generation is the most obvious idea behind the name that it also has darker implications. Personally, I see several possible interpretations of the phrase a couple of which are definitely sinister. Just start saying the phrase with emphasis on different words. Also Self has different meanings depending on the perspective. Like in the idea that Oric proposed in his riddle. To recreate the prison. (If one recreates a prison to put himself back into it, he is imprisoning himSELF. You could say he's EXTENDING his own sentence. The DUNGEON is the prison.)

Just a little food for thought on that idea since nobody seemed to discuss it at the time.

[GreatWyrmGold]

IDEA: What if the Warrens was an elaborate fraud by ___ the Awesome in order to sell shopkeeper wares? All adventurers come in knowing of their background, but ___ the Awesome (who will always take on the name as a backwards of the newcomer) will use his illusion magic and general trickery to make them doubt themselves, and also convince them that the Warrens is named "Warrens of (reversed adventurer name) the Awesome". Then he will begin to make them think that they are the Target, the ever-respawning of the Six Siblings. As they advance on, thinking that the android denizens of the Warrens are real people (it was actually illusion), they try to confront ____ the Awesome, and forced to expend his resources to defeat the "Siblings". Cain was ____'s co-founder, but soon he grew sickened of their cowardly ways of wheezing money, and attempted to destroy the Warrens. ___ then imprisoned him and used illusion magics to make him think he's one of the Siblings, and the poor fools who dared venture into the Warrens would meet their end at the hand of the brainwashed Cain...

That seems overly complicated, both as a theory and as a business plan.

That was my point.

Ok, to clarify here, when I say "predictable" I mean "it can be easily predicted that it is likely to happen in some cycles" not "you can easily predict it will happen every cycle."

Yes, and...?

See: "my base point which is that it's not likely to break the cycles." If it's likely to have been anticipated by whoever set the cycles up, it's not likely to be something that causes the system to collapse.

The logic is faulty. You might as well argue that because the government knows that there could be a nuclear war, nuclear wars aren't anything to worry about.

It's important to Oric, and Oric is in control of a lot. Oric will use that control to make sure things are the ways he wants it to be, which if the last cycles ended as badly for the Target as it seems from the fact that he started in power and Ciro didn't, are how the last cycle (and maybe the cycles before them) ended--with the Target losing and Oric on top.

Agreed, but that's not really important to my base point which is that it's not likely to break the cycles.
Though, it might change them significantly. I wonder, does Oric want the Target dead because the Target is the one who can replace him?

Change.
Precisely.
That's what this is about (I think)--ways that this is different from previous cycles.

Ok, I'm going to have to go back and re-read this conversation, because one of us has gone completely off-track here.

Maybe both.

Or...they were designed by a crazy guy. Or they could be remodeled slowly on a large scale. Or there was a magma pit in the original designs.

Except that that's contradicted by DL2.

Tell me, what major modifications are there? The drained pools? That's about all I noticed.

Off the top of my head, the room/door arrangement changed, as did the flooring in some areas.

I don't remember either of those, although for the former I'll concede that I wasn't paying that much attention at the time.

Then why did the Warrens system care how much oxygen was left in the Greens? They're part of the Underside.

... That's the point. The Underside's life support system got taken out, so it had to fall back on the Greens.

What if...
...the Greens are the Life Support system?

They're part of it, certainly. When I said that the system got taken out, I meant stuff like whatever is circulating the air. With that down, the Greens can't keep up.

I...might see what you mean.

Same way it helped with Riltia.

Yeah, even if we return him to human form I don't see him just overlooking Al throwing him into a pit of acid for the hell of it.
Especially not considering Al was the one to push him into the Warrens in the first place.

...True. Still, as a human he wouldn't be much of a threat.

[Mego]

Spoiler: More Theorycrafting, Serious Edition (click to show/hide)

All living things in the Warrens, except the Angels and one other, are mortal. That one immortal is the Warden, and can only be defeated by the one who is to be the next Warden. Currently, Oric is the Warden, and Ciro is the Warden-to-be. The cycles are cycling Wardens. Oric wants Ciro dead so that he can keep being Warden, and therefore immortal.

[miauw62]

But what about Betweenford? He also mentions that he oversees the overseer, so he's pretty important. Does he just kinda come with the package?

[sjm9876]

Spoiler: More Theorycrafting, Serious Edition (click to show/hide)

All living things in the Warrens, except the Angels and one other, are mortal. That one immortal is the Warden, and can only be defeated by the one who is to be the next Warden. Currently, Oric is the Warden, and Ciro is the Warden-to-be. The cycles are cycling Wardens. Oric wants Ciro dead so that he can keep being Warden, and therefore immortal.

the bolded bit is genius, and feels right for some reason. that would also explain the role 'the thief' - he stole wardenship from the last warden - maybe Cain?

I believe the angels are effectively the maintenance and internal prison guards - they ensure no one escapes, even the warden - hence 'oversees the overseer.'

[Mego]

As I said, the Angels are immortal. They're the maintenance crew. No matter what, Betweenford and company are always there.

[Twi]

You know, something has occurred to me.

Waaay back in the beginning, rooms we hadn't been in for a while would fade out. At first, I thought this was just to save screen space, but given that this is TWoOtA I'm reconsidering if it's just that.

Since this IS a shapechanging dungeon, perhaps the dungeon itself was 'unloading' rooms that weren't in use. On the other hand, I'm sort of dubious because they fade to white, as opposed to a more void-worthy black or gray.

...Maybe I'm just overthinking things because I'm bored.

[Brilliand]

Spoiler: More Theorycrafting, Serious Edition (click to show/hide)

All living things in the Warrens, except the Angels and one other, are mortal. That one immortal is the Warden, and can only be defeated by the one who is to be the next Warden. Currently, Oric is the Warden, and Ciro is the Warden-to-be. The cycles are cycling Wardens. Oric wants Ciro dead so that he can keep being Warden, and therefore immortal.

the bolded bit is genius, and feels right for some reason. that would also explain the role 'the thief' - he stole wardenship from the last warden - maybe Cain?

I believe the angels are effectively the maintenance and internal prison guards - they ensure no one escapes, even the warden - hence 'oversees the overseer.'

No good - Cain and Oric both implied that their current roles were their roles in every cycle.

[hops]

Spoiler: More Theorycrafting, Serious Edition (click to show/hide)

All living things in the Warrens, except the Angels and one other, are mortal. That one immortal is the Warden, and can only be defeated by the one who is to be the next Warden. Currently, Oric is the Warden, and Ciro is the Warden-to-be. The cycles are cycling Wardens. Oric wants Ciro dead so that he can keep being Warden, and therefore immortal.

the bolded bit is genius, and feels right for some reason. that would also explain the role 'the thief' - he stole wardenship from the last warden - maybe Cain?

I believe the angels are effectively the maintenance and internal prison guards - they ensure no one escapes, even the warden - hence 'oversees the overseer.'

No good - Cain and Oric both implied that their current roles were their roles in every cycle.

Because Oric haven't died for a very long time... I think it had been implied that Ciro always get killed by Cain.

[freeformschooler]

Also:Reading through the updates, we can see that the skill tree can upgrade abilities; place acid and Growth into Tree

((Actually, no, we were never shown that it could upgrade abilities. In fact, we never even successfully used it before losing it.))



Growth doesn't seem to fit inside the Skill Tree menu.

Open Quest Log.

You open the Quest Log for the first time in a while. Your Arc Quest has been reassigned.

Have Cherish heal everyone to full, then restore SP at fountain, then for the love of god SAVE AT THE SAVE POINT. It'd be nice to have a full hp/sp restore point for once.

If Cherish is down with this plan, then equip her with Riltia's Spear and enchant it with Ice. For reasons so obvious I don't think they need to be said.

Finally, we should probably figure out how we're going to tackle this boss monster, since we actually have the luxury of prep time and know we're going to get into another boss fight right afterward. I'm in favor of hiring another Merc to absorb some damage. I don't know whether we should get a healing potion or something in case Cherish goes down/betrays us. Check out the shop inventory. Too bad Riltia is a hostage, we've got empty bottles and loner wisps we could combine for that Elec Absorb combo.

Cherish heals Goom-bess up to full HP while you drink from the fountain. Wait, has this water been running the whole time? You're pretty sure that's happened before. Maybe the water systems here are faulty. You look for some way to turn it off - being an environmentally friendly type of girl - but to no avail: there is only a "push" button.



Finally, after Cherish restores health at the fountain, you hit save on the save point.



Finally, everyone at full! Whew.



You send Goom-bess down to get the stuff and turn back to Cherish.













Goom-bess, finished with the enchantment, brings Cherish the icy spear. Talk about an upgrade.

Also, ask if she knows what does the key open, and about the lightning bolt.

Cherish picks up the visor she threw on the ground.

She examines it.

She examines it some more...

She says a few words into it, but no response comes out.

Spoiler: Party (click to show/hide)

[monk12]

"What exactly do they get zapped by? Proxxy? Wisps? Tesla coils? And are they tied to something in the air, or is it, like, magnets holding them up?"

"Also, what's the deal with the room with the giant keyboard?"

Looks like we're going to have to electrify this key. We should go to the aforementioned room and... chuck the key at the electrifier majigger?