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[GlyphGryph]

Why don't we just fix it?  There is no good reason to do this manually.

Or we could stop using the stupid system completely and use an actual, effective alternative? They've even got a name for the system that provides all the benefits and none of the drawbacks! It's called MMP - Mixed Member Proportional voting.

[RedKing]

Okay! So...President got successfully inaugurated without anyone taking a pot-shot at him. That made my weekend (cause I had some serious doubts about the latter, especially after some of the pro-gun rallies on Saturday). >_>

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Why don't we just fix it?  There is no good reason to do this manually.

Or we could stop using the stupid system completely and use an actual, effective alternative? They've even got a name for the system that provides all the benefits and none of the drawbacks! It's called MMP - Mixed Member Proportional voting.

MMP has one very extreme drawback: It makes parties official entities and gives them power. The party bosses get to decide who can take office and who cannot without additional law to depower them. As the USA does not recognize political parties at all in the Constitution and barely at all in law, switching to MMP without significant preparation would effectively end the democratic process in favor of oligarchy. MMP also pretty much kills independent politicians.

[mainiac]

PV systems greatly lower the difficulty of starting a new party.  If a party was corrupt, people would just leave for a new one.  Or they'd be republicans.  Heyoo!

[RedKing]

would effectively end the democratic process in favor of oligarchy.

And that would be different from the current situation how exactly?

[Owlbread]

Back in 2008 I was sure a far-right nutcase was going to shoot Obama. There were plots though, weren't there?

[RedKing]

Back in 2008 I was sure a far-right nutcase was going to shoot Obama. There were plots though, weren't there?

A few half-baked ones. Don't think anybody ever got close to being operationally a threat. I don't know the size of the security cordon this weekend, but I imagine it was extensive. We weren't on high alert or anything, but it was certainly in the back of my mind.

[GlyphGryph]

MMP has one very extreme drawback: It makes parties official entities and gives them power. The party bosses get to decide who can take office and who cannot without additional law to depower them. As the USA does not recognize political parties at all in the Constitution and barely at all in law, switching to MMP without significant preparation would effectively end the democratic process in favor of oligarchy. MMP also pretty much kills independent politicians.

This is... not actually true to the extent you seem to be describing it. Only half the legislature will ever ever be made up of party appointments. The other half will be made up of from votes for actual real candidates. And do you really think we /don't/ have a party stranglehold right now?

Hell, half the benefit of the system is that it would PROMOTE the existence of third parties and encourage people to vote for individuals they like without hurting the party they like, you know? It's possible to vote Green, and also for your local Democrat that you really like (or vice versa). If anything, it lessens the party stranglehold over the process. We may not have parties officially recognized in the Constitution, but it's foolish to think that's done a thing to stop them or that MMP would somehow make it worse.

[Owlbread]

Back in 2008 I was sure a far-right nutcase was going to shoot Obama. There were plots though, weren't there?

A few half-baked ones. Don't think anybody ever got close to being operationally a threat. I don't know the size of the security cordon this weekend, but I imagine it was extensive. We weren't on high alert or anything, but it was certainly in the back of my mind.

Maybe 30 years ago an assassination would have been far more likely. I wonder how long Jesse Jackson would have lasted.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

would effectively end the democratic process in favor of oligarchy.

And that would be different from the current situation how exactly?

In our current situation, the lack of party authentication limits the amount of shit they can pull. Remember how they treated Ron Paul's people at the RNC? MMP would allow them to do that during the actual election.
 

Back in 2008 I was sure a far-right nutcase was going to shoot Obama. There were plots though, weren't there?

A few half-baked ones. Don't think anybody ever got close to being operationally a threat. I don't know the size of the security cordon this weekend, but I imagine it was extensive. We weren't on high alert or anything, but it was certainly in the back of my mind.

Here's the full list. I imagine lots of the crazies are stopped by the notion that succeeding means Biden gets to be President.

[SalmonGod]

There was that rapper who took some verbal pot shots.

[mainiac]

In our current situation, the lack of party authentication limits the amount of shit they can pull. Remember how they treated Ron Paul's people at the RNC? MMP would allow them to do that during the actual election.

Here's the thing about that.  They could do that to Paulites because they're the minority and a pretty small one at that.  That's not oligarchy, that's the majority not respecting the minority.  And do you know what would be great for addressing lack of minority representation?  PV.

[RedKing]

would effectively end the democratic process in favor of oligarchy.

And that would be different from the current situation how exactly?

In our current situation, the lack of party authentication limits the amount of shit they can pull. Remember how they treated Ron Paul's people at the RNC? MMP would allow them to do that during the actual election.

So...you're saying it would allow them to do that thing that they were already doing. Again, different how? Other than possibly lending it some level of legitimziation, not that either party gives a shit about legitimacy when it comes to internal party politics.

[GlyphGryph]

And I'm not even sure how they COULD do that sort of stuff with MMP any more than they could now?

[SalmonGod]

This should be politics.