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Author Topic: Iron Testament - an ancient "open world roguelike" (pre-alpha)  (Read 81846 times)

Scoops Novel

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Re: Iron Testament - an ancient "open world roguelike" (pre-alpha)
« Reply #286 on: September 30, 2015, 01:41:33 pm »

How will we walk in iron age shoes? I'm much more interested in understanding life then anything else.
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Haspen

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Re: Iron Testament - an ancient "open world roguelike" (pre-alpha)
« Reply #287 on: October 02, 2015, 01:24:13 pm »

PTWing this!
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Clownmite

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Re: Iron Testament - an ancient "open world roguelike" (pre-alpha)
« Reply #288 on: October 06, 2015, 10:41:36 pm »

How will we walk in iron age shoes? I'm much more interested in understanding life then anything else.

I'm not sure what you mean. Are you asking about the setting in general?
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Zireael

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Re: Iron Testament - an ancient "open world roguelike" (pre-alpha)
« Reply #289 on: October 26, 2015, 03:27:56 am »

Posting to watch. This is awesome!
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Clownmite

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Re: Iron Testament - an ancient "open world roguelike" (pre-alpha)
« Reply #290 on: October 26, 2015, 09:26:26 pm »

PTWing this!
Posting to watch. This is awesome!

Thanks guys!


My recent push has been on implementing my own take on Goal-Oriented Action Planning for AI. It's a cool idea where the AI's view of the world is broken into possible states of the world, and behaviors they can take to change the state of the world. However, each behavior has its own world states that must be true in order to execute the behavior, so you end up chaining together a bunch of behaviors in order to accomplish a goal.

For example, my latest test has been to give some people outside civilization the goal of "Shelter has been constructed". To figure out how to achieve the goal, they see what behaviors they can accomplish to construct a shelter. The behavior is "Construct Building", which turns construction materials into a building. However, in order to construct a building, it the world state "Have construction materials at location" must be true - and if it's not, the behavior of "Bring materials to location" is needed.

This goes on until they find a world state which is true. Once that happens, they can aggregate and plan their behaviors. The ones I got working recently is something like:

  • Move to a place with wood
  • Gather wood
  • Move to a place with iron
  • Gather iron
  • Forge iron tools (using the same reaction definition present in the economy simulation!)
  • Move to a place with stone
  • Gather stone
  • Use tools to transform stone into stone construction materials
  • Move to location where building will be constructed
  • Use tools to transform construction materials into building

The great part about this is that if the goal of "Shelter has been constructed" fires, but the AI already has tools, stone, or construction materials, it won't worry about doing those other behaviors, without me having to explicitly add in a ton of if/else checks for multiple levels of world states.

It's also capable of making choices when there are more than one type of behavior available to execute an action, but this is going to be a hairy thing to debug correctly. For example, if an AI wants a particular object, it might have the option of buying it, stealing it, or stealing money in order to buy it with. You can imagine that having these kinds options available makes it difficult to predict and tune AI behavior to get it just right.

At any rate, the behavior list I described above is more or less implemented already. It was really cool to see guys moving around the map with some kind of purpose. Here's what a debug-speak outsider told me when I ran into him:




Of course the AI-speech will need to be improved, but there's also a lot more work needed on the goal algorithm itself to make sure it can handle the right types of behaviors. It turns out it's not easy to track states of the world for things that don't exist yet. In this example, a building that doesn't exist yet, made out of construction materials which may not be known, in a location that isn't known yet, has to be passed around to multiple goal states and whatnot.

But I really hope I can smooth out some of those issues soon and make the algorithm more solid. Hopefully that can lead to all sorts of complex behaviors and people moving around in the world. I really want to get to a state where I can go out into the world and encounter other travelers, and have interesting conversations with them about why they're traveling and what they've seen.
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Mephansteras

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Re: Iron Testament - an ancient "open world roguelike" (pre-alpha)
« Reply #291 on: October 26, 2015, 10:19:54 pm »

Snazzy! I've been looking into that type of AI myself. It's a very useful thing.
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Clownmite

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Re: Iron Testament - an ancient "open world roguelike" (pre-alpha)
« Reply #292 on: October 29, 2015, 10:39:40 pm »

Snazzy! I've been looking into that type of AI myself. It's a very useful thing.

Thanks! I'm still pretty hung up on having the goal AI smoothly know how to deal with wanting things that don't exist yet, but at least the implementation is getting a little better.


For fun, I recorded a little snippet of some entities in the worldview going about their debug goals (a random choice of building a shelter, having some economic items, or having some specific items)

Sorry for the terrible quality gif, I had trouble finding a high quality video -> gif converter.
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Haspen

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Re: Iron Testament - an ancient "open world roguelike" (pre-alpha)
« Reply #293 on: October 30, 2015, 02:32:47 am »

Are those camels?

Will we be able to lead a camel caravan across the "Sinai desert'" to sell our bricks to the coast-dwelling "Canaanites"? :P
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Clownmite

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Re: Iron Testament - an ancient "open world roguelike" (pre-alpha)
« Reply #294 on: October 30, 2015, 11:22:34 pm »

Are those camels?

Will we be able to lead a camel caravan across the "Sinai desert'" to sell our bricks to the coast-dwelling "Canaanites"? :P

Yeah, I'm using the camel to represent merchant caravans right now. Art is temporary of course.

I have some old code that lets you pick an economic agent and "become" them to make their bid and sell offers. It's more of a debug thing right now and it's limited to non-merchants, but it would be cool to tune that up and make it more of a feature in the future. Due to the way the simulation works, it's pretty time-intensive and difficult to actually play as one of the economic agents, since you need to pay close attention to prices and price history in order to stay competitive.
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DrunkGamer

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Re: Iron Testament - an ancient "open world roguelike" (pre-alpha)
« Reply #295 on: December 03, 2015, 07:10:47 pm »

that feeling when you will never be a roguelike developer
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Skyrunner

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Re: Iron Testament - an ancient "open world roguelike" (pre-alpha)
« Reply #296 on: December 04, 2015, 01:44:30 am »

Reading the progress in this thread makes me want to make my own economy simulator, then I remember what happened to Chartered Waters :P

Oh also, two years ago I posted

I want your language gen D:<

But back then the only language I knew was C++, and now I am capable of Pythons too. So... can I look at your code again pls :D
« Last Edit: December 04, 2015, 06:52:13 am by Skyrunner »
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HavingPhun

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Re: Iron Testament - an ancient "open world roguelike" (pre-alpha)
« Reply #297 on: December 14, 2015, 03:36:46 pm »

I've been working on and off on a world generator this year in C++. I noticed that at the boundaries between biomes the colors blend nicely on your maps. How did you go about doing that? I've tried just taking the average of a tiles colors and variations where the surrounding tiles have more or less weight in the calculation. However, mine all result in some ugly looking colors instead of a nice gradual shift between biomes.
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Graknorke

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Re: Iron Testament - an ancient "open world roguelike" (pre-alpha)
« Reply #298 on: December 14, 2015, 03:50:47 pm »

that feeling when you will never be a roguelike developer
Why not? You could easily make a 1 floor, no item, combatless "roguelike" in a few minutes. It's just building on from there (note: Don't actually do this. You'd be rewriting bodges for more time than actually getting anything done. It's more the principle of the thing).
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dorf

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Re: Iron Testament - an ancient "open world roguelike" (pre-alpha)
« Reply #299 on: December 15, 2015, 09:27:25 am »

that feeling when you will never be a roguelike developer
Why not? You could easily make a 1 floor, no item, combatless "roguelike" in a few minutes. It's just building on from there (note: Don't actually do this. You'd be rewriting bodges for more time than actually getting anything done. It's more the principle of the thing).
Your advice is solid.
It's just that the dev should then use the experiences learned and start anew, with a goal in mind vs. trying to build on the existing code without a plan.
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