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[Neonivek]

Base 135 special attack says yes, and Quiver Dance agrees.

Volcarona sort of does the exact opposite of most bugs - it's Magikarp power until level 59, then absolute shitwrecking.

Yeah, not every pokemon follows their type gimic I will admit.

[DeKaFu]

I did a bug-only run of Red back before GSC came out. It was awesome. Parasect would've been great if its weaknesses weren't so bad. It was, however, my only real way of dealing with Rock types.

I've also had a Scyther on my main team in pretty much every game except Black, because Scyther pretty much just never stops being the best Pokémon.

That said, I really really really liked how Black and White locked out old Pokémon until postgame. It made it feel a lot more like the early games where you were discovering everything for the first time. The fact that they apparently threw this out in B2W2 is the main reason I haven't been motivated to play them yet. :/

[Urist Imiknorris]

That said, I really really really liked how Black and White locked out old Pokémon until postgame. It made it feel a lot more like the early games where you were discovering everything for the first time. The fact that they apparently threw this out in B2W2 is the main reason I haven't been motivated to play them yet. :/

As a counterpoint, BW2's selection of mons is absurdly huge.

Also Magnemite is available really early and destroys a lot of stuff, which is awesome because Magneton is my favorite anything ever.

[JWNoctis]

That said, I really really really liked how Black and White locked out old Pokémon until postgame. It made it feel a lot more like the early games where you were discovering everything for the first time. The fact that they apparently threw this out in B2W2 is the main reason I haven't been motivated to play them yet. :/

And unless I've missed something, many if not most of the common and/or popular pokémons from the previous generations are already not outright available since the days of Gen III, and you need the national dex for most of them. BW was just another step up. This doesn't matter too much for me, since my teams since Gen III tended to consist of 'mons of the respective generation only. But that's not a BW-style hard limit - More choices are always appreciated.


Now something meta: The topic of the thread has changed from Pokémon X and Y to popular starters, then to personal experiences with each generation, then back to the new starters, then to PMD, then back to the new legendaries, then to spacing and naming of each generation's games, then to the villain groups, then back again to the new legendaries after another short one with PMD, then to pokémon movies, then back to legendary 'mons in general, then to good bug-type 'mons and then to this in 14 pages, 6 days and 200 replies.

Maybe the title of the thread should change a bit too...or better not.

[Bluerobin]

I think this thread has already been more productive than the general pokemon thread was. Shhh though, don't scare people away!

[Urist Imiknorris]

Bay 12 threads are known for derails. I'm surprised that it's stayed on the topic of Pokemon.

[Heron TSG]

I'm sure we'll get back on topic once there's actually something new to talk about. We got a couple minutes of trailer and a few legendary names, it could only last so long.

I just want more bug Pokemon. I feel like they've been ramping them up recently and I'm excited for what they could do with the next generation. There are so many types of bugs in the world to draw inspiration from, and I think it shows with how unique all the bugs are. I feel like they could make a thousand bug Pokemon and still keep pumping out unique ones.

Yeah but the problem is that Bugs suffer from their gimmick a LOT!

Which is that Bugs are meant to cap out early giving you strong Pokemon very fast but not necessarily in the long run. Hence why out of all the bug Pokemon there ever was only one was good and another is broken because of a specific ability it has that was added much later.

It means that there will never be a bug heavy Pokemon.

Contrary to popular belief, there are several downright fantastic bugs and a whole slew of average-but-still-useful ones.

Scizor is an absolute wrecking ball with technician-boosted STAB +1 priority Bullet Punch, and more so with a choice band. Even with a life-orb, u-turn and superpower pack a wallop. Its typing is actually not terrible, barring a 4x fire weakness. Steel type can make a terrible Pokemon mediocre (Mawile), or it can make a decent Pokemon incredible. (Scyther → Scizor)

Genesect has the same type, but much better stats and a unique move. It's a legendary, who'da thunk it'd be good?

Volcarona, as mentioned earlier, has Quiver Dance, powerful offensive typing, and decent speed. It's all-around pretty good.

Forretress is -another- fantastic Bug/Steel Pokemon, but serves an entirely different purpose. It's a utility Pokemon that takes a serious pounding to remove. Rapid spin, several entry hazards, status effects, you name it. Forretress can do it.

Heracross' type makes it fairly frail, but Megahorn is amazing on a Pokemon with that much attack and Guts to boot. Or Moxie, if you're feeling particularly moxious. Close Combat is another great move, especially considering that the defense losses don't really hurt Heracross much anyway. If he's hit by something super effective, it was game over anyway.

Yanmega doesn't have great stats, but with Speed Boost it can be fairly effective at hit-and-run tactics combined with U-turn.

Ninjask also gets Speed Boost, but baton pass and swords dance to boot. If you play your cards right, Ninjask can pass +4 attack and +3 speed to an allied Pokemon pretty darn easily. In this battle, I used a Ninjask+Relicanth combo to completely obliterate an Ubers team. Relicanth is surprisingly powerful on its own, but without Ninjask there's no way in hell it'd OHKO a Kyogre, Groudon, Arceus, Deoxys-D, or Giratina-O. (Also an Umbreon, but eh.)

Parasect gets Spore, which is arguably the best move in the game against anything that isn't prepared for sleep.

Bug-type Arceus is trololo against the psychic-populated Ubers metagame.

Bug type is rad, man.

[Silfurdreki]

Ninjask also gets Speed Boost, but baton pass and swords dance to boot. If you play your cards right, Ninjask can pass +4 attack and +3 speed to an allied Pokemon pretty darn easily. In this battle, I used a Ninjask+Relicanth combo to completely obliterate an Ubers team. Relicanth is surprisingly powerful on its own, but without Ninjask there's no way in hell it'd OHKO a Kyogre, Groudon, Arceus, Deoxys-D, or Giratina-O. (Also an Umbreon, but eh.)

What I find hilarious about this is that it's literally a stone fish that knocks out pokémon god. With one hit. Using its head.

Personally I could never be bothered to EV train and theorycraft enough to get into the pokémon metagame, but I can see how battles like that can make it worth it.

[penguinofhonor]

I can EV train. That's easy. You can EV train a team of six in a few days with the right items.

IV breeding is what's awful. If you get two Pokemon with perfect 31 IVs in all stats, their odds of having a baby with perfect IVs are 1 in 32768. These are the best possible odds for getting a perfect IV baby.

Note that this is impossible to test at level 1. So for every baby you'll have to rare candy it up a few levels and then reset the game to test the next one.

This is pretty much my biggest gripe with Pokemon. The competitive barrier is hundreds of hours of egg grinding.

[JWNoctis]

The closest thing I did to EV train is to have my sp. atk IV >=30 and quiet Eevee train on Roselias, Ralts' and Kirlias south of that Backlot's mansion in Gen IV, and the result was almost scary - A Glaceon with 254 special attack at level 65. Didn't do the same with the rest of the stats, though.

Now the only other thing I need is someone to batonpass an Agility or two, and maybe a hail weather condition -which is, sadly, outlawed in many metagame competition AFAIK- on him.

Builds like this is of course not hard to counter in metagame, but is more than good enough for almost any NPC trainers. And even just a bit of meta-strategy and a bit of rough EV training makes the game almost too easy, unless you're on a Nuzlocke run. And yes, the entrance barrier to competitive battle is beyond me, but playing around with movesets and EVs is still interesting.

[Neonivek]

whole slew of average-but-still-useful ones

Unfortunately it is the metagame that makes average into terrible and one of the reasons why I try to outright ignore the older pokemon community.

Since once you learn that your "Clefairy sucks" and it is your favorite Generation 1 pokemon (DON'T JUDGE ME!) you start to feel sad.

[JWNoctis]

whole slew of average-but-still-useful ones

Unfortunately it is the metagame that makes average into terrible and one of the reasons why I try to outright ignore the older pokemon community.

Since once you learn that your "Clefairy sucks" and it is your favorite Generation 1 pokemon (DON'T JUDGE ME!) you start to feel sad.

"Strong Pokémon. Weak Pokémon. That is only the selfish perception of people. Truly skilled Trainers should try to win with the Pokémon they love best."
-- The Fourth Johto Elite Four, Karen

Which, sadly, doesn't work all that well in metagame.

One of the reason reasons I don't dedicate too much to metagaming. Although it can be fun and rewarding.

[Neonivek]

If only it worked like the show where a pokemon's stats mattered a lot less once you were a great trainer.

[JWNoctis]

Not likely now w/o flipping the stuff out and dispersing almost the entirety of veteran fandom - me included. There's no such measure as greatness in the world of metagaming, and Pokémon franchise has been known for its largely well-maintained internal consistency within the game series.

But that's where spin-off titles comes in. Conquest is better in this aspect, PMD series had no trainers to begin with, and Ranger series is another flavor entirely.

[Neonivek]

Not likely now w/o flipping the stuff out and dispersing almost the entirety of veteran fandom - me included. There's no such measure as greatness in the world of metagaming, and Pokémon franchise has been known for its largely well-maintained internal consistency within the game series.

But that's where spin-off titles comes in. Conquest is better in this aspect, PMD series had no trainers to begin with, and Ranger series is another flavor entirely.

Ehhhh... They are always trying so hard to be Pokemon that they often forget to be "better" games first.