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Author Topic: Recommend me your favorite 4X game.  (Read 9087 times)

Waterplouf

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Re: Recommend me your favorite 4X game.
« Reply #30 on: January 07, 2013, 02:25:13 pm »

What about Galciv II?
No. Just....no. I've really tried to get into the GalCiv games, but they don't do it for me. I never got the feeling of any kind of unitary empire, just a couple of scattered planets with a handful of ships. Also not fond of the never-ending constructor race.
Can you be more descriptive please? I ask since a friend and myself bought it on a Steam sale a month or so ago and, although we haven't gotten around to playing it fully yet, first impressions seem to indicate it was a turn-based Civ inspired 4X in SPPPACCCEEEE.
We wanted a decent multiplayer game in the vain of Civ/Alpha Centauri with a different setting and a slightly higher level of complexity to bridge some boring weekends. I certainly hope we didn't waste our money.
If I understand correctly, you and your friend bought galactic civilization 2 to play in multiplayer ? If so, you're going to be disappointed, as the game is Single player only.

I'll personally also recommend Distant World. It's a great game overall, even though it's far too much overpriced imho ( The whole game with the expansions cost around the 70$ and the expansions are pretty much must-haves to get the full experience. )
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ScriptWolf

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Re: Recommend me your favorite 4X game.
« Reply #31 on: January 07, 2013, 02:50:14 pm »

If no one else has said it distant worlds is really enjoyable, I find the AI quite good in the way you can do as much as you want, so if you want you can watch your empire grow
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RedKing

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Re: Recommend me your favorite 4X game.
« Reply #32 on: January 07, 2013, 04:42:43 pm »

Or, Master of Orion thr... lol no, I cant even complete that sentence without laughing. Unless you are willing to find a hard to source 2-cd version and mod it to hell and back - I have a few incomplete LP's around the place with that going on in them.

Dude, even patched and modded to hell and back, MOO3 crashed on me at least five times every half hour. I uninstalled it before it could rifle through my wallet and give me herpes.

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Re: Recommend me your favorite 4X game.
« Reply #33 on: January 07, 2013, 04:50:54 pm »

From all 4X games I played...

Master of Orion 1&2.

Also, Star Trek: Birth of Federation, but with the fanmade Ultimate Dominion Mod, that improves/fixes lots of issues and allows for enormous map sizes.
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Tellemurius

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Re: Recommend me your favorite 4X game.
« Reply #34 on: January 07, 2013, 04:54:03 pm »

Or, Master of Orion thr... lol no, I cant even complete that sentence without laughing. Unless you are willing to find a hard to source 2-cd version and mod it to hell and back - I have a few incomplete LP's around the place with that going on in them.

Dude, even patched and modded to hell and back, MOO3 crashed on me at least five times every half hour. I uninstalled it before it could rifle through my wallet and give me herpes.


MOO3 took forever but i got it working on win7 (doing a VM of xp ofcourse)

neotemplar

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Re: Recommend me your favorite 4X game.
« Reply #35 on: January 07, 2013, 05:22:18 pm »

Master of Magic is what I would suggest.

However I'll also suggest checking out Emperor of Fading Suns, which while buggy and with crap AI is a pretty neat game.
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gimlet

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Re: Recommend me your favorite 4X game.
« Reply #36 on: January 07, 2013, 06:01:16 pm »

FINALLY a few years ago I had a fairly decent MOO3 game with mods - but I still don't think I'd start it up ahead of other 4x games.

My favs
Master of Magic - still tops the list, I fire it up every year or 2 and there's new mods that make the ai a *little* less braindead.  Look past the graphics and the ai, it's still unmatched.
MOO2 - again, still a classic.  After a few games you'll want to pump up the alien races (look for
Space Empires IV - with mods it's still one of the best 4x out there - if you're crushing it try Carrier Battles.
Alpha Centauri - Bummer the AI is so exploitable, other than that a pretty good game
MOO1 - elegant system, a *little* light on the chrome and a bit dated but still great
Crusader Kings II - cool and funny, I only played a little so far but loved CK1.  If you want inspiration read http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?235468-Knud-Kn%FDtling-Prince-of-Denmark-(and-other-assorted-tales)  The plan was simple...
Aurora - there's a lot of fun in there, not *quite* a complete game alas
Europa Universalis II/III - pretty good especially with mods

Oldies that are fun but not quite all there - I still fire these up every once in a while:
Birth of the Federation - growing economy is sooooo slloooow, it probably is in some other games too but they hide it better
Star Wars: Rebellion - Lots of pretty cool stuff but lots of problems, fun for a few run throughs
Spaceward Ho! - nice simple system, not completely stupid AI, great for a quickie.
Empire of the Fading Suns - with mods it's pretty good, bummer there's still so many bugs/unimplemented cool features

Meh:
GalCiv I/II - They have all the elements I *should* like and the AI seemed moderately competent but after half a dozen serious tries I just never ever feel "damn I want to fire up Galciv"
Age of Wonders I/II - ok for a few runthroughs, I haven't tried recently so there might be new great mods
MOO3 - even with mods it just didn't grab me, I should try again with the most recent crop but I'm not hopeful...

Still Trying:
Star Ruler - Some interesting stuff, only played a little
Space Empires V - I bought it but was waiting for the "fixed version" to get seriously started, supposedly with mods it's not so bad now.  Bummer the series appears dead :(
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Darkmere

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Re: Recommend me your favorite 4X game.
« Reply #37 on: January 07, 2013, 06:43:23 pm »

What about Galciv II?

I bought the whole set on the Steam summer sale and enjoyed it, but the expansions make a lot of changes and aren't really comparable to vanilla. Then again, the reasons I liked it (ship builder, easier micro/macro per planet, race flavor) won't affect many die-hard fans of 4x. And my tastes usually run contrary to this forum anyway. I will say that most games seem to have one AI get really lucky in the land rush and grab a power cluster of high-quality worlds that causes them to easily win the arms race.

For actual recommendation... this is old, and probably not what most 4x'ers will like, but I was a huge fan of Ascendency when it first came out. The alien designs were neat, no humans at all, and being able to custom-design every individual ship was very fun.
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aristabulus

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Re: Recommend me your favorite 4X game.
« Reply #38 on: January 07, 2013, 06:48:09 pm »

More votes on the tally for classic Microprose era 4x; MOO1, MOO2, SMAC, Master of Magic.  I've played the hell out of all of them.

I bought MOO3 on the cheap from a used games bin once upon a time...  yeah.  The base game was really awful.  I wish I could've wrenched a little more value out of it with mods, but it was only a few bucks. (the disc is long gone now)

Wasn't fond of GalCiv2, for many of the reasons RedKing already stated above.

-----

I can't really recommend Star Ruler to anyone.  It takes the worst "how many APM can you crank out" aspects of RTS and splices it to the banal all-war-all-the-time 4x doctrine as illustrated by the classic Conan quote.  Diplomacy is beyond useless; the AI will make repeated outrageous (and often impossible) demands, and then finally declare war.  There are some fundamental problems with the economic scaling and progression, where you can end up with starships literally larger than the diameter of Pluto-analogue orbits.  (wtf!?!?!)  A lot of the menus and interfaces are fiddly and quirky, I found them a hassle to use.  There are a couple decent ideas in SR, but overall it feels like the whole indie-scope-overreach problem.

All that said...  SR is highly moddable, and there's at least one serious long-term project still running, Galactic Armory.  I still need to give that a whirl, see how much of vanilla SR's problems it fixes.
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Shadowlord

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Re: Recommend me your favorite 4X game.
« Reply #39 on: January 07, 2013, 07:10:03 pm »

I haven't tried the multiplayer on most any of these if they have it.

I'd rate SoTS: Complete and Star Ruler as my top space 4xes, personally, and probably Age of Wonders: Shadow Magic as top fantasy 4x.

SoTS: Complete differentiates the different species, has technologies which actually matter, and allows you to design ships to take advantage of your enemies' weaknesses without it just feeling like rock-paper-scissors.

AoW:SM is like Master of Magic, except for the "Ack, my wizard just got assassinated and I lost the game D:" factor. It also seems to have less spells, but I'm not certain. It's also far more stable than MoM.

Warlock is also worth a look.

Star Ruler is quite fun and there's a lot of thinking involved. There's also a mod called Galactic Armory which adds a bunch of new things to the game to improve it further.

I'd put Master of Magic below AoW:SM mainly because of bugs (and especially crashing).
Master of Orion 2 is fun until you realize that the AI is dumb and does not know how to design competent ships or compete at all, really, and once you pass a certain skill level, the game will forever be too easy even if you make a heavily crippled custom race. (I've won with a one system challenge before)
Master of Orion 1 doesn't have the same problem so much because it is much simpler, but... it's much simpler. :V

CKII is nice, but I haven't played it much.

Civ V bizarrely puts your entire empire into unhappiness when you capture (or are given) a city. Win a war, force an enemy to surrender, and have him send you all but one of his cities? Congratulate him, he just guaranteed that you will lose the game. It's also easier to win as a single city than as a nation composed of multiple cities (in my limited experience of just a couple games, one with a large empire, and one with just one city on a one city challenge, in which I won a cultural victory).

Alpha Centauri is absolutely bar none the best at bringing the gameworld to life, and a fun game to boot. There are some things which are exploitable, however, which were never fully balanced properly (there's the same sort of thing in MoO II, but it's far worse in MoO II). Alien Crossfire fixes some issues, so it works better on modern computers (if you turn directdraw off in the ini file it stretches to your desktop resolution without clipping errors; Alpha Centauri has clipping errors).

GalCiv II was mind-bogglingly boring and uninspiring, the game ruleset and tech tree were both terribly designed and both contributed to creating a poor game.

I've barely tried Space Empires V.

I've noted that Aurora seems like it could be fun, but it's very buggy. I also tend to get bored with it as nothing interesting happens for long stretches of time.

MoO III is just a waste of money at any price, regardless of what mods exist for it.

----

On Star Ruler:
The AI's diplomaticness depends on how well you are doing. If you're weak or inferior, they'll be more of an asshole. If you're stronger than them, or in a better position, they'll be more likely to do what you want. I have sustained peace with all but one empire (the most powerful one, where I was the second most powerful) in a 14-empire game until the end of the game when I started blowing up stars and planets (literally) with super-long-range super-powerful artillery stations.

The ship (visual) sizes are a bit odd. Of course, nothing seems to be realistically scaled, and the distances between solar systems tends to be around 'neptune orbit' ranges, but there's a somewhat fair reason for that: It's ridiculously hard to do realistic sizes in a game (Edit: due to floating point inaccuracy), and if you DID, you wouldn't be able to see very much - e.g. stuff would look realistic. You'd see a planet, its star, and a bunch of dots for the other planets and stars. Wohoo? So instead stuff is scaled or stylized so that you can see everything (or many things) at the same time. Perhaps they should have faked the distance numbers and speeds, and ships should not scale up exponentially because eventually you wind up with ships whose shield bubble is as big as a solar system, which is a bit ludicrous, but it's clearly not meant to be super-realistic, just fun.

A lot of the menus and interfaces are fiddly and quirky, I found them a hassle to use.
I didn't notice this, aside from that right clicking to get rid of 'new news' icons while the ship designer is open would delete something from the designer, which was annoying/horrifying.

Probably because directly before buying Star Ruler, I had tried playing Sword of the Stars II and found the interface completely obtuse and impenetrable.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2013, 07:18:06 pm by Shadowlord »
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sluissa

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Re: Recommend me your favorite 4X game.
« Reply #40 on: January 07, 2013, 07:51:15 pm »

I will give another +1 for Distant Worlds. I haven't tried the expansions, but even the base game which I borrowed for a while from someone, and had a ton of fun with is great. I tended to take full control, but the AI was somewhat competent when I let it take control, although sometimes it would fight me on things.  It was one of the few games where I felt like I didn't have to pump a ton of money into a huge military fleet. I actually ran one game, somewhat successfully with a tiny military fleet and a huge economic empire focusing on, of all things, tourism. My military ships were mostly fighting the natural space lobster things that would attack my mines, the other empires I tended to bribe off, or failing that, I bought out pirate factions and had them fight for me and kept my allies happy so they would pitch in when needed.

I'll probably buy it for myself some day, if it goes on a decent sale... it's all a bit expensive for my tastes at the moment.
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JWNoctis

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Re: Recommend me your favorite 4X game.
« Reply #41 on: January 07, 2013, 09:55:14 pm »

Looking at what we have so far:

AI War 1
Eador: Genesis 1
Masters of Orion I 5
Masters of Orion II 5
Sword of the Stars I 4
Aurora 4
Space Empire III 1
Distant Worlds 7
Civilization V 1
Master of Magic 4
Alpha Centauri 5
Freeciv 1
Age of Wonders: Shadow Magic 4
Space Empire IV 2
Europa Universalis III 2
Crusader Kings II 2
Space Empire V 1
Civilization IV 1
Star Ruler 2
Warlock: Master of the Arcane 2
StarDrive 1
Galactic Civilizations II 1
Star Trek: Birth of the Federation 2
Emperor of Fading Suns 1
Europa Universalis II 1
Star Wars: Rebellion 1
Spaceward Ho! 1

Wait...Did I just list all the notable 4x games in the last 15 20 years that's somewhat good, plus a few barely-4x ones? Nice.

Distant Worlds, along with all the classic titles and SOTS I and Aurora are the clear winners here.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2013, 10:01:58 pm by JWNoctis »
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sluissa

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Re: Recommend me your favorite 4X game.
« Reply #42 on: January 07, 2013, 10:37:30 pm »

I should have mentioned, but I spent a TON of time with Space Empires 2, 3 and 4 when I was younger. I tried to get into 5, but for whatever reason never really did. It's not that I hated it, I think I just didn't have the time to put into it when I first got it and it kind of sits on he back burner now. I loved 2, 3 and 4 although I don't remember anything specific about them, however. It's been a long time. But I'd safely say that any of 2, 3 or 4 would be  worthy of purchase. And I'd even hesitantly recommend 5. I liked what I saw when I tried it but honestly didn't see enough to make a reasonable judgment.

One that might sort of fit that wasn't on that list was Star Wars: Empire at War. It's got a somewhat nice metagame that operates sort of 4x-ish with individual battles that play more like RTS battles (although limited ones that play out based on the metagame units you send into them and because they're limited like that they tend to go pretty quickly and don't bog things down) Plays similarly to the Total War games in that respect, so if those aren't 4x enough for you then you might want to avoid it.

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PrimusRibbus

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Re: Recommend me your favorite 4X game.
« Reply #43 on: January 07, 2013, 10:42:12 pm »

Dominions 3 is by far my favorite multiplayer 4X, particularly with some of the mods.
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Frank2368

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Re: Recommend me your favorite 4X game.
« Reply #44 on: January 08, 2013, 12:29:20 am »

Space Empires 3. Because you can cut yourself off from all the other star systems in the galaxy by closing the wormholes between them, then devote 10 years to buildinga fleet of cloaked robot kamikaze ships armed with system destroying sun exploder bombs, then unleash them upon the rest of civilization.

Thank god AdBlock can block avatars, or else I probably would've quit this forum. Something about that avatar is just so disturbing. I'm still cringing right now thinking about it.
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