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[Lectorog]

Portal 2 seems to be a very polarizing title.

Nah, I'm pretty neutral on it. Good, but not great. Not worth the money IMO. But this, of course, is not the topic.

Doesn't the money gained from re-selling games usually end up being spent on more games anyway? I bought plenty of games I'd never of been able to afford second hand and know people who used to sell lots to save when buying new titles. I remember getting two new N64 games a year and could have got more if I'd sold them but the few times I did I really regretted it.

People selling games can get more games. The people buying used games are the problem. They're getting the games with the company getting none of that money; without the used game market, they'd probably still buy most of those games, but the company would get that money. I certainly don't know the numbers, but I'm pretty sure going without used games nets the game companies more money overall.

[Vattic]

People selling games can get more games. The people buying used games are the problem. They're getting the games with the company getting none of that money; without the used game market, they'd probably still buy most of those games, but the company would get that money. I certainly don't know the numbers, but I'm pretty sure going without used games nets the game companies more money overall.

I guess I'm just going on personal experience and it was a long time ago I considered myself a console gamer. So many games I'd not of played if not for second hand. My SNES and almost all the games were second hand and I'd not of even heard about gaming for at least a few more years without being offered it.

[Neonivek]

Doesn't the money gained from re-selling games usually end up being spent on more games anyway? I bought plenty of games I'd never of been able to afford second hand and know people who used to sell lots to save when buying new titles. I remember getting two new N64 games a year and could have got more if I'd sold them but the few times I did I really regretted it.

The issue is that they don't KNOW if that is true. As in they cannot be 100% sure.

That and also remember now is the time they can do it with minimum difficulty. Forcing more rights to the developer aids them in whatever they want to do. If they wanted to, for example, make games a long term rental... then this move is a good first step.

[Putnam]

Doesn't the money gained from re-selling games usually end up being spent on more games anyway? I bought plenty of games I'd never of been able to afford second hand and know people who used to sell lots to save when buying new titles. I remember getting two new N64 games a year and could have got more if I'd sold them but the few times I did I really regretted it.

The issue is that they don't KNOW if that is true. As in they cannot be 100% sure.

Thus is life. That could be said about literally anything. They're sure enough.

[Neonivek]

Doesn't the money gained from re-selling games usually end up being spent on more games anyway? I bought plenty of games I'd never of been able to afford second hand and know people who used to sell lots to save when buying new titles. I remember getting two new N64 games a year and could have got more if I'd sold them but the few times I did I really regretted it.

The issue is that they don't KNOW if that is true. As in they cannot be 100% sure.

Because why not gain near absolute control over their product?

Imagine if books worked that way. I am sure book sellers only wished they could make resale impossible.

Thus is life. That could be said about literally anything. They're sure enough.

[Lectorog]

The book market already assumes so much lost profit that I'm not sure the two are appropriately comparable. Book market doesn't work like other markets.

[Neonivek]

The book market already assumes so much lost profit that I'm not sure the two are appropriately comparable. Book market doesn't work like other markets.

Yes but what we should do is apply DRM to books.

---

Also it is comparable because if they COULD do what Sony does to books... You can be sure a law would be passed in a matter of days.

[Putnam]

They do apply DRM to books already.

[Neonivek]

They do apply DRM to books already.

On physical books?

Digital books are so far away from "everyone uses" that no one would care if they added DRM.

[Frumple]

Yeah... they're trying to do with certain ebooks, largely. That's got a hell of a long way to go in terms of sophistication, from what I recall, though, and the existence of physical copies are massive, gaping, holes in the defenses, so to speak (at least until they come up with economical paper that prevents or interferes with scanning, I guess. And even that leaves flat copying by hand.). But even physical books, at least theoretically (if not economically or actually) have DRM-style methods available. Apply the general technical field behind paper currency to a book and bob's yer uncle.

Plus, as large as the FOSS or even just free movements are in gaming, the similar sort of thing in terms of writing is exponentially larger (though perhaps only absolutely, not relatively.), so... there's, like, a greater body of great works in literature for people to turn to if commercial stuff gets too uppity.

Though... it's not untrue that you can have a pretty darn robust gaming experience without resorting to commercial works, especially if you include commercial works that were eventually released publicly. The sticky thread should be monument enough to that, heh.

[alexandertnt]

Doesn't the money gained from re-selling games usually end up being spent on more games anyway? I bought plenty of games I'd never of been able to afford second hand and know people who used to sell lots to save when buying new titles. I remember getting two new N64 games a year and could have got more if I'd sold them but the few times I did I really regretted it.

People selling games can get more games. The people buying used games are the problem. They're getting the games with the company getting none of that money; without the used game market, they'd probably still buy most of those games, but the company would get that money. I certainly don't know the numbers, but I'm pretty sure going without used games nets the game companies more money overall.

The people selling the games can get more games with the money they just got from people who just bought the game second hand. People buying second hand games are a necessity for this to happen, and not at all "the problem".

I also doubt that they would buy most of their games first hand. People will usually buy second hand because they don't have much money and would probably struggle to summon up the extra money needed to buy the game first hand.

Also it is comparable because if they COULD do what Sony does to books... You can be sure a law would be passed in a matter of days.

Also to movies too. That is because games are apparently a special case for poorly defined reasons.

Reselling movies (owned disc plus licensed IP/story/characters etc), yes.
Reselling books (owned paper plus licensed IP/Story) yes. You could bet any attempt to stop this in particular would not go very far at all.

But games (owned disc plus licensed IP/story/characters, plus interaction!)? no, apparently.

[Matz05]

Exactly. Everyone just says "But it's different with games. The industry would collapse if we treated them the same" when it clearly WOULDN'T.

[Shadowlord]

Digital books are so far away from "everyone uses" that no one would care if they added DRM.

What do you mean "added?" They've already got DRM.

[miauw62]

I'm in the process of building a mid-range gaming PC for less than $400.  Might even scrape just under $350.  Mostly new parts.  Maybe not as cheap as a console, but consider games will be cheaper, future upgrades will be cheaper, and the utility of the system is so much larger it's not even comparable.

Most of your games will contain double the content if you count mods.
So yeah, it's entirely worth it.

[Shadowlord]

I've also only bought one digital book (from Barnes and Nobles), and then never again, because they require me to keep a current credit card number on file to be able to read the book, and if whatever device I want to read it on is not online so that their software (which is the only thing I can read it with) can log into their servers when I want to read said book, I have to instead enter that credit card number into the device to unlock it, which means they must also be storing it somehow in the file (or have hashed it, or what have you). I can't read it on a kindle because LOL BARNES AND NOBLE, only a PC or a noob (oops, typo) nook, which I am definitely not inclined to buy now.

If you think "They can put draconian DRM on books without consequences and therefore can do the same to games," let me assure you, there are those of us for whom the whole digital book thing is particularly ironic, as the pirates have all the advantages predicted for digital books, and the legal purchasers almost none. Those of us not keen on pirating or acquiring illegal software to unDRM legally purchased ebooks have gone back to buying physical books instead.