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Author Topic: Sony PS4 DRM?  (Read 17855 times)

fenrif

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Re: Sony PS4 DRM?
« Reply #30 on: January 04, 2013, 07:44:32 pm »

On the other, when you buy a used game, Sony, and the developer, and the publisher, get all of zero dollars.  They have no obligation not to fuck with you.  So I don't care.

Except various consumer protection laws, and the right of first sale.

That is a good point why don't they sell used game...
Why sell someone a used game? They'll just expect to pay less than for a full one. greedy bastards. Plus then you have to handle the actual logistics of used game sales. Game shops can do it because they allready have retail outlets and the ability to handle large amounts of stock, Publishers and console manufacturers don't (arguably Apple do, but they have nowhere near enough brick and mortar locations to service the entirity of gamers). More work and less money. Easier to just de-facto ban it.
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Seraphim342

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Re: Sony PS4 DRM?
« Reply #31 on: January 04, 2013, 07:49:15 pm »

First-sale doctrine states that once a product is sold legally, all rights pertaining to that individual product are transferred to the person who bought it.  For example, if you buy a book, car, house, etc.  the person who originally made it has no further control over it, and you can use it, modify it, re-sell it, etc. however you want. 

The problem is that digital media, without copy protection, can be copied a more or less infinite number of times.  For example, you can buy a CD, rip the music off of it onto a hard drive, then re-sell the CD while still holding a copy of the intellectual property on it.  It's an example of technology outgrowing previous statutes.  A big part of the problem is that the people writing the laws don't have a full understanding of the subject matter, and in many cases industry lobbyng organizations can define what the so-called "facts" are. 

With console games, you are by and large still required to have the game in the drive to make use of the content, and they are much harder to duplicate than a PC game, for example, due to the limitations of the system.  This should make them fall under first-sale doctrine, but you've got to remember the people who are actually deciding what's legal in this area are the same people who think that playing Doom instantly turns teenagers into mass-murdering dog rapists. 

The industry feels that anything that costs them profits, legal or not, has to be done away with, and they have a powerful and well-organized lobby to push those goals.  What I find more disturbing, however, is that the first-sale doctrine itself is now under attack.  Instead of trying to find loopholes around it, many lobbies outside the music, movie, and games industries are slowly, subtly trying to redfine the entire doctrine if not do away with it entirely. 

The worst by far is Apple, in my opinion.  They're basically trying to tweak the laws in such a way that they retain full rights over individual devices sold legitimately to end-users.  Basically, they're trying to tweak the legal language so that any "purchase" of their products becomes an open-ended lease with a single one-time payment.  That way, the transaction is conducted in exactly the same way, but the seller retains ALL rights to the product vis-a-vis modification (they will brick your iPhone if you "jailbreak" it), re-sale, et cetera.  They're only one example, though.  Even the auto companies are trying to pull the same shit. 

Basically, consumer rights are eroding faster and faster as lobbies become more powerful and organized.  In the US at least, Congress isn't doing fuck-all to prevent it either, on either side of the aisle. 
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Shadowlord

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Re: Sony PS4 DRM?
« Reply #32 on: January 04, 2013, 09:14:34 pm »

Annoying DRM is really the main reason I ever buy console games and put up with the higher prices for console games (because there are no sales for console versions of games as good as the sales for the PC versions of the same games, or for their DLC). I don't like allowing DRM on my computer; Steam is basically the only DRM-like thing I allow.

If Microsoft were to block used games, and their online game store and the various retailers' brick and mortar stores (and Amazon)'s sales for console games and DLC still was unable to compete with Steam's sales for the same games for the PC, I'd probably just end up saving the money I would have spent on their new console. Steam doesn't have used games either, but the 75% off sales have made it worth it to me. There's still the potential concern of "Valve could theoretically ban you and take away all your games" (and Microsoft couldn't, but they can blacklist a console from XBL, which is almost as bad, since it blocks you from patches, achievements, multiplayer, etc).
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Matz05

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Re: Sony PS4 DRM?
« Reply #33 on: January 04, 2013, 09:37:57 pm »

And with the new system they could take your games away too: just set it to auto-terminate whenever the console next connects to the Internet and the games stop working because the account linked to them no longer exists.
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IronTomato

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Re: Sony PS4 DRM?
« Reply #34 on: January 04, 2013, 09:42:56 pm »

PTW.
THIS IS MADNESS!
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Lectorog

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Re: Sony PS4 DRM?
« Reply #35 on: January 04, 2013, 10:24:21 pm »

I don't see the problem here other than it being a dick move against the resale companies. I buy digital copies of games all the time. Can't resell those, can't buy them used. Even if it's not for good reasons, it's not a step in the wrong direction.
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Neonivek

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Re: Sony PS4 DRM?
« Reply #36 on: January 04, 2013, 11:26:08 pm »

I don't see the problem here other than it being a dick move against the resale companies. I buy digital copies of games all the time. Can't resell those, can't buy them used. Even if it's not for good reasons, it's not a step in the wrong direction.

It means that if I have a PS4 and my friend has a PS4 I cannot play a game I own at his house.

That is actually the #1 issue I have. It is more then just hurting resale... it is hurting just basic "Having and enjoying a game".

Did your PS4 break down or was stollen? well I hope you enjoy customer service to get all your games reregistered to your new PS4. I hope you kept the CD-keys.
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lordcooper

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Re: Sony PS4 DRM?
« Reply #37 on: January 04, 2013, 11:29:29 pm »

I'm okay with this.  No second hand sales equals more first hand sales which probably equals more games getting made to a higher quality.  THQ might be in a lot less trouble if this had been done a few years ago.

I don't see the problem here other than it being a dick move against the resale companies. I buy digital copies of games all the time. Can't resell those, can't buy them used. Even if it's not for good reasons, it's not a step in the wrong direction.

It means that if I have a PS4 and my friend has a PS4 I cannot play a game I own at his house.

That is actually the #1 issue I have. It is more then just hurting resale... it is hurting just basic "Having and enjoying a game".

Did your PS4 break down or was stollen? well I hope you enjoy customer service to get all your games reregistered to your new PS4. I hope you kept the CD-keys.

Utter bullshit.  The link in the OP clearly states that games would be locked to user accounts rather than a specific console.  This is the why games bought via PSN work right now.  You can easily just sign into your own account at a friend's house.
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Culise

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Re: Sony PS4 DRM?
« Reply #38 on: January 04, 2013, 11:33:51 pm »

I don't see the problem here other than it being a dick move against the resale companies. I buy digital copies of games all the time. Can't resell those, can't buy them used. Even if it's not for good reasons, it's not a step in the wrong direction.
I would argue it is a step in the wrong direction, because it increases entry risk to the consumer, and reduces probability of initial sales being made.  In essence, at present, if one purchases a game and does not like it, they can simply sell it to someone who is interested in purchasing it, whether this is individually or through public resale vendors like Gamestop (leaving certain...questions of the trade value they propose aside for now).  This money can then be applied to other new games or saved, but the fact that the customer can recoup a certain component of their initial investment in the case of a perceived failure of the product or should they simply tire of the product effectively mitigates the risk of purchasing a game at new prices.  In effect, by reducing the risk, it thus encourages customers to purchase the game at full price. 

Well, no, not really, I wouldn't necessarily state such a thing unilaterally.  Even if the statement is completely accurate in both cause and effect, there are alternate methods to reducing entry risk to encourage new customers to purchase the game; witness many digital sale vendors such as Steam, which primarily encourages it through regular and materially-significant, but time-sensitive sales.  Alternately, one can argue that the ease of digital exchange facilitated by these vendors is itself of value (saving the limited resource of time, that is), compensating for the increased risk should the game turn out to be disliked.  Even so, I wonder if Sony and/or Microsoft would commit to such a thing as Steam, GamersGate, GoG, and other such companies have done, however, or if they'd find their own successful route.  But it is an interesting assertion I've seen here and there.

To be honest, I don't like this.  It seems intrusive, and moreover, it also feels like another failure point.  The Sony root kit was not only vilified (and justly so) for its blatant violations of privacy, but also because it introduced security failures into the system and, according to some reports, impaired system functionality by consuming resources and increased system instability due to sloppy coding of its functionality.  Too much flexibility and error tolerance in the tag may possibly (though certainly not certainly) allow pirates to crack it more easily, so I would expect Sony to err on the side of caution, with...entertaining side-effects.  I don't know; I don't trust Sony to implement this thing effectively and coherently to ensure a seamless experience for the end user, and you can already bet that, given the questionable nature of the system itself, people will get frustrated very quickly should it fail and stop them from playing their own games.  After all, imagine if Steamworks DRM had been implemented to require (and not just default to) always-on DRM, regularly called home, consumed tremendous system resources (more than Steam already does), and generally made a hash of your computer? 
...
Actually, given the tolerance for Origin that I've seen among most casual users, I suppose it would actually be accepted.  And now I'm rather depressed. 
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SalmonGod

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Re: Sony PS4 DRM?
« Reply #39 on: January 04, 2013, 11:35:28 pm »

I'm okay with this.  No second hand sales equals more first hand sales which probably equals more games getting made to a higher quality.  THQ might be in a lot less trouble if this had been done a few years ago.

I have yet to see much correlation between publisher profits and product quality...  In fact, I would argue the correlation is usually inverse.
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Man of Paper

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Re: Sony PS4 DRM?
« Reply #40 on: January 04, 2013, 11:39:12 pm »

I say this is a step in the wrong direction, precisely for the reasoning Culise stated. But the thing is, there are so many people who are uninformed and not anywhere near as tech-savvy as people like us are. And that means that companies can take advantage of their blissful ignorance and do whatever they please, so long as those who know what's going on remain in the minority.


I say we create our own company and game system. And call it the Baystation.
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Zanzetkuken The Great

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Re: Sony PS4 DRM?
« Reply #41 on: January 04, 2013, 11:42:28 pm »

This may just cause me to be unable to use consoles.  The DRM would probably require you to go online, and my internet speed is too slow in order to have a console go onto the internet.

I say this is a step in the wrong direction, precisely for the reasoning Culise stated. But the thing is, there are so many people who are uninformed and not anywhere near as tech-savvy as people like us are. And that means that companies can take advantage of their blissful ignorance and do whatever they please, so long as those who know what's going on remain in the minority.


I say we create our own company and game system. And call it the Baystation.

Too close to "Playstation," and Sony would sue to get more money in their hands.
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Man of Paper

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Re: Sony PS4 DRM?
« Reply #42 on: January 04, 2013, 11:44:05 pm »

Dwarftube then?
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Zanzetkuken The Great

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Re: Sony PS4 DRM?
« Reply #43 on: January 04, 2013, 11:46:21 pm »

Dwarftube then?

Might be a little too close to Youtube.
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Alkhemia

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Re: Sony PS4 DRM?
« Reply #44 on: January 04, 2013, 11:49:28 pm »

Dwarftube then?

Might be a little too close to Youtube.
There other tubes besides Youtube or so I've heard.
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