Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Scelly9]

Care to provide some reasoning?

[Freshmaniscoolman]

Well for one, this game is about dwarves, and being gay has NOTHING to do with this game at all, so what would it add? It will add arguing for no reason, if you want to add homosexuality mod it if you want it so hard.

[Scelly9]

Well for one, this game is about dwarves, and being gay has NOTHING to do with this game at all, so what would it add?

Realism.

It will add arguing for no reason

I doubt it will after it's decided on one way or another.

if you want to add homosexuality mod it if you want it so hard.

That's impossible.

[DrPoo]

Alot of you people sound really bigotted.
Homosexuality dosent make you weaker or stronger.
And Homosexuality isnt just feelings. Imagine if you are a straight guy and you were forced to have sex with another guy, you wouldnt even get a hardon, now imagine if you were a girl just like that.

Thing is, if you cant get a stiffie, you cant stick it in her cunt. Then you cant get kids.

[FearfulJesuit]

If it's feelings, then I'll have to set up secret police in my fortress to arrest homosexual dwarves.

And heterosexual dwarves.

Feelings crap's for elves.

[Loud Whispers]

Well I won't bother reading the other posts, going straight for my opinion: No.

-Tl;dr
-Opinion without reasoning
-Why bother discussing

Good use of a suggestions forum there.

[forward]

Thing is, if you cant get a stiffie, you cant stick it in her cunt. Then you cant get kids.

Many closet gays have kids though. I have a gay friend, who has had sex with a woman. This was during his teens, when he was in closet. Man has to do what man has to do, you know.

Civilizations in DF that really despise gays could produce closet gays. They might get continuing bad thoughts, they might be seemingly more homophobic than others, they might go brokeback mountain with some other dwarf.

Offtopic: has anyone suggested introducing affairs to the game? It could be pretty good plot device, gay, straight or whatever.

[G-Flex]

Alot of you people sound really bigotted.
Homosexuality dosent make you weaker or stronger.
And Homosexuality isnt just feelings. Imagine if you are a straight guy and you were forced to have sex with another guy, you wouldnt even get a hardon, now imagine if you were a girl just like that.

Thing is, if you cant get a stiffie, you cant stick it in her cunt. Then you cant get kids.

I am not entirely convinced you know how the human body works.

Well for one, this game is about dwarves, and being gay has NOTHING to do with this game at all, so what would it add? It will add arguing for no reason, if you want to add homosexuality mod it if you want it so hard.

It's about dwarves, and models dwarven societies and relationships. Dwarves already get married and have children, for example. How would homosexuality not be relevant here?

[BlackDevil]

While I am not entirely opposed to having homosexuality in the game, it would be nice if it came with a little on/off button, so that those of us making small fortress, where babies are important, wouldn't suffer for it. Also, so that those people who would rather not be confronted with it, won't be either.

I have heard some arguments about how it is "normal", which it is, and how it is practised in ancient cultures as well, which it was. But we are dealing with dwarves here, NOT humans, keep that in mind. A fictive race living underground and fighting demons aren't exactly realistic either and this fictive race can be anyway we want it to. If we say dwarves can't be homosexual, you can't exactly disprove it with examples from our own culture.

I am not sure we want to emulate our own society too much in every regard with everything that entails. Would you add non-consensual sex as well, just because it is done in our own society and have been done, for millenia? What about prostetution, child marriage and so on? No, I did not think so.

tl:dr I have no problem with it being added if I can turn it off. Too much realism isn't necesarily a good thing.

[Loud Whispers]

If we say dwarves can't be homosexual, you can't exactly disprove it with examples from our own culture.

Only two people should have an absolute say in the game's design, and them two are the only ones needing no reasons to be given (though this is still bad practice), so actual examples from our culture when our modern culture is the only thing opposing it matters. That is the whole point of discussions in the suggestions forum.

Would you add non-consensual sex as well, just because it is done in our own society and have been done, for millenia? What about prostetution, child marriage and so on? No, I did not think so.

Seriously, don't equate prostitution, child marriage and rape to homosexuality. Flamebait and you look like a bigot. Toady won't implement those for the same reason he won't implement excrements; he doesn't want Dwarf Fortress to become "that game with hairy shitting rapists."

Whereas this would be completely unnoticeable unless you look in the relationships screen and see two Dwarves of the same caste married or in love.

[GoombaGeek]

"that game with hairy shitting rapists."

...And we've gone full circle back to FATAL. Called it!

[G-Flex]

While I am not entirely opposed to having homosexuality in the game, it would be nice if it came with a little on/off button, so that those of us making small fortress, where babies are important, wouldn't suffer for it. Also, so that those people who would rather not be confronted with it, won't be either.

I don't think a small percentage of homosexual dwarves would matter for reproduction... you know, just like it doesn't in the modern world. And again, to your second point, I do not think it would be a good thing for Toady to cave in to bigots by making it optional, or should he make dark-skinned dwarves optional too?

But we are dealing with dwarves here, NOT humans, keep that in mind. A fictive race living underground and fighting demons aren't exactly realistic either and this fictive race can be anyway we want it to. If we say dwarves can't be homosexual, you can't exactly disprove it with examples from our own culture.

Sure, except the game has humans and elves too, and Toady has directly stated that variety in sexual orientation is something he'd be okay with implementing apolitically. Also, your own argument can be turned back on itself by saying that, as a fantasy race under Toady's control, we don't get to say that dwarves "can't be homosexual".

I am not sure we want to emulate our own society too much in every regard with everything that entails. Would you add non-consensual sex as well, just because it is done in our own society and have been done, for millenia? What about prostetution, child marriage and so on? No, I did not think so.

Why are you comparing homosexuality, an ethically neutral thing, to things we consider significantly harmful? Is there a reason for that that you aren't telling us?

[Bot Hack]

Would you add non-consensual sex as well, just because it is done in our own society and have been done, for millenia? What about prostetution, child marriage and so on? No, I did not think so.

HA, I have been thinking about this and homosexuality is totally relevant just for this, sex. Most people have it hard enough with consensual sex. I can see it now, entire mountain halls engraved with images of multiple Dwarf dudes going at it!

[BlackDevil]

I don't think a small percentage of homosexual dwarves would matter for reproduction... you know, just like it doesn't in the modern world. And again, to your second point, I do not think it would be a good thing for Toady to cave in to bigots by making it optional, or should he make dark-skinned dwarves optional too?

Well, this truly depends on the size of the population. If you only use your startout dwarfs of 7, you will often find only two people of one gender... if these happened to be homosexuals, you wouldn't get any babies at all. Comparing forts with 20-40 or even 200 dwarves to 6 billion people isn't really working.

Sure, except the game has humans and elves too, and Toady has directly stated that variety in sexual orientation is something he'd be okay with implementing apolitically. Also, your own argument can be turned back on itself by saying that, as a fantasy race under Toady's control, we don't get to say that dwarves "can't be homosexual".

You missed my point entirely, but indeed the argument does go both ways. Since it is a fantasy society, there is no real life example nor any factbook that dictates "this is how dwarves live and act" and thereby whatever toady chooses to do will be a "natural" dwarven society.

Why are you comparing homosexuality, an ethically neutral thing, to things we consider significantly harmful?

I think you have misread me. No where were I equating nor comparing these things. Perhaps I should refrase it then. What I was trying to say was the argument "homosexuality should be included since it would add more realism to the world" isn't really a good nor waterproof argument. We do not need nor want excessive realism in the game as doing so tends to add more problems than they solve. I think someone mentioned excrements which thankfully hasn't been implemented either. (yet)

It really depends on the eye of the beholder and the situation i reckon. Homosexuality is not ethically neutral in a dwarven society where everything that moves outside your little mountain is an enemy and the survival of your species depends on your reproduction capability. And lots of people in our own society would even say that it wasn't ethically neutral - that is why it is such a controversial subject I reckon. And child marriage is not considered harmful in many parts of the world,(not that I don't find it repulsive). Just look at the countries in the middle east.

So, what can we learn? That your opinion is not a a universal one and that everyone has different opinions on things. Don't try to force you views on others with misguided assumptions and wrong facts but make a valid argument instead.

Is there a reason for that that you aren't telling us?

Very mature.

Would you add non-consensual sex as well, just because it is done in our own society and have been done, for millenia? What about prostetution, child marriage and so on? No, I did not think so.

HA, I have been thinking about this and homosexuality is totally relevant just for this, sex. Most people have it hard enough with consensual sex. I can see it now, entire mountain halls engraved with images of multiple Dwarf dudes going at it!

OMG, must unsee! Yup, that is definitely one of the things I fear.

[Bot Hack]

Would you add non-consensual sex as well, just because it is done in our own society and have been done, for millenia? What about prostetution, child marriage and so on? No, I did not think so.

HA, I have been thinking about this and homosexuality is totally relevant just for this, sex. Most people have it hard enough with consensual sex. I can see it now, entire mountain halls engraved with images of multiple Dwarf dudes going at it!

OMG, must unsee! Yup, that is definitely one of the things I fear.

Deck the halls with Urists' balls... TRALALALA...