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[Putnam]

My science mod has alkali metals. See my sig.

[GreatWyrmGold]

GoombaGeek: Your argument is kinda stupid.

The Dark Ages were centered on Europe, yes, but most fantasy is as well and, by the 15th century, Europe had caught up to the rest of the world and was one of the most highly "developed" areas.
And your argument about the lack of the Dark Ages or Renaissance doesn't make sense either. Toady said that technology would be limited to the 1400's. Were methods of extracting alkali metals known and used in that time frame?
And yes, batteries could have been made. Guess what? Hot air balloons could have been made by certain sedentary groups of Native Americans, and carts could have been made by Australopithecus. That doesn't mean that anyone ever thought to put things together in a way that probably didn't make sense at the time.

And where did I mention the Dark Ages, or Europe? I merely asked for evidence of alkali metal extraction by the cutoff date Toady has given. Not a system involving technologies they could have had and could have put together for a random reason and discovered worked--an actual example of such a system being found, or at least speculated on by an actual archaeologist.

[Avo]

@Goomba Geek The cutoff isn't the year 1400's, it's the technological level of European civilization in the 1400's. While it's stretched slightly to incorporate various fun elements the stretch your asking for here is over 3 centuries. Dwarves don't have any kind of alchemy, they've turned their hunt for gold away from the laboratory towards proven methods. Gunpowder, muskets and even rifled barrels all came about before alkali metals were abundantly available.

[Orange Wizard]

What does any of this 15-century technology nonsense have to do with alkali metals, and why does it matter?

[GreatWyrmGold]

What does any of this 15-century technology nonsense have to do with alkali metals, and why does it matter?

Toady says that technology in DF will never exceed what there was in the 1400's, or maybe 1400, or maybe 1400's Europe.
Alkali metals weren't extracted until the 18th century or so.
Therefore dwarves cannot extract alkali metals.

[GoombaGeek]

What does any of this 15-century technology nonsense have to do with alkali metals, and why does it matter?

Toady says that technology in DF will never exceed what there was in the 1400's, or maybe 1400, or maybe 1400's Europe.
Alkali metals weren't extracted until the 18th century or so.
Therefore dwarves cannot extract alkali metals.

This is also why they cannot refine bismuth (first described 1546, in Germany) or nickel (first isolated and identified 1751, also in Germany). They are also incapable of making nickel silver, which was developed in China and was only replicated in Europe in the 1770s. What's more, platinum is completely inaccessible to the dwarves, as platinum was only brought to Europe from South America in the year 1557, and even if they were to acquire some platinum, it would be completely impossible to refine it into bars, as its melting point is very high and it was only first worked through a three-step process involving aqua regia, ammonium chloride and burning the resulting ammonium chloroplatinate. All of these described technologies are totally inaccessible to the dwarves as a result of the strictly enforced tech level.

[GreatWyrmGold]

What does any of this 15-century technology nonsense have to do with alkali metals, and why does it matter?

Toady says that technology in DF will never exceed what there was in the 1400's, or maybe 1400, or maybe 1400's Europe.
Alkali metals weren't extracted until the 18th century or so.
Therefore dwarves cannot extract alkali metals.

This is also why they cannot refine bismuth (first described 1546, in Germany) or nickel (first isolated and identified 1751, also in Germany). They are also incapable of making nickel silver, which was developed in China and was only replicated in Europe in the 1770s. What's more, platinum is completely inaccessible to the dwarves, as platinum was only brought to Europe from South America in the year 1557, and even if they were to acquire some platinum, it would be completely impossible to refine it into bars, as its melting point is very high and it was only first worked through a three-step process involving aqua regia, ammonium chloride and burning the resulting ammonium chloroplatinate. All of these described technologies are totally inaccessible to the dwarves as a result of the strictly enforced tech level.

I agree, those should be removed too. In fact, I argued pretty vocally about aluminum and platinum in particular a while back. Want a link?

[GoombaGeek]

What does any of this 15-century technology nonsense have to do with alkali metals, and why does it matter?

Toady says that technology in DF will never exceed what there was in the 1400's, or maybe 1400, or maybe 1400's Europe.
Alkali metals weren't extracted until the 18th century or so.
Therefore dwarves cannot extract alkali metals.

This is also why they cannot refine bismuth (first described 1546, in Germany) or nickel (first isolated and identified 1751, also in Germany). They are also incapable of making nickel silver, which was developed in China and was only replicated in Europe in the 1770s. What's more, platinum is completely inaccessible to the dwarves, as platinum was only brought to Europe from South America in the year 1557, and even if they were to acquire some platinum, it would be completely impossible to refine it into bars, as its melting point is very high and it was only first worked through a three-step process involving aqua regia, ammonium chloride and burning the resulting ammonium chloroplatinate. All of these described technologies are totally inaccessible to the dwarves as a result of the strictly enforced tech level.

I agree, those should be removed too. In fact, I argued pretty vocally about aluminum and platinum in particular a while back. Want a link?

No, that's pathetic.

Really, the point here is that rigorously sticking to a tech level for no reason, thinking nothing about how fun or useful the additions are, is just boring. The examples were that Toady isn't a ginormous hardass for tech level 100% of the time, not that omg we should totally remove pre-existing and perfectly acceptable to almost anyone content for the sake of realism.

[Slayerhero90]

Can I go back in time an give medieval people firearms?

[GoombaGeek]

Can I go back in time an give medieval people firearms?

go for it, man

[Sonlirain]

Can I go back in time an give medieval people firearms?

go for it, man

Just remember to teach them how to make guns and ammo because otherwise they will blow through the ammo you provided and those shiny guns will get demoted to clubs.

[Slayerhero90]

Oh. Also need to give them chainswords.

[CaptainArchmage]

More material the better (except possibly for FPS). I think you can just mod this in with the exception of batteries and electricity and some of the effects when materials get mixed.

For example, the explosion or corrosion of a material on contact with water doesn't happen. You don't have a way to mod in a device which takes a certain amount of fuel and uses it over time. Both of those would allow the emulation of alkali metals and batteries.

Magic is on the to-do list for now.

There is a reasonable amount of flexibility with the 1400s cutoff. A strict cutoff would still allow gunpowder cannons, personal firearms, and flamethrowers. The very fact that dwarves dig underground should imply their ability to access oil and gas deposits (along with respective !!complications!!), even if it was relatively difficult for humans to access (asphalt and crude oil were used well before that era, just not in the massive quantity seen today).

I think the technology restrictions will slowly be lifted as time goes on and the game gets developed further.

[Putnam]

It can mostly be modded. Again, I already have modded it, check out my sig.

Also, alkali metals are, in general, soft as hell and completely, utterly useless for armor and weapons.

[Orange Wizard]

They also violently react with almost anything they come into contact with. So giving your dwarves lithium armour will result in vaporised armourers.