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Author Topic: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead - A roaming horde appears on the horizon!  (Read 1892798 times)

Kaitol

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Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead - A roaming horde appears on the horizon!
« Reply #15300 on: December 13, 2014, 07:05:55 pm »

Why would anyone argue against a less cookie cutter world. As it is, I see a tile and like 9 times out of ten I know exactly what will be there.
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Angle

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Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead - A roaming horde appears on the horizon!
« Reply #15301 on: December 13, 2014, 07:09:33 pm »

Well, there are other considerations. This'll make the worldgen code more complex, and possibly harder to work with. It also might slow the game down, and result in larger savefiles.
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Gentlefish

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Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead - A roaming horde appears on the horizon!
« Reply #15302 on: December 13, 2014, 07:12:01 pm »

Hmm. So would you guys be interested in a worldgen rewrite? This'd basically make worldgen more flexible. So you could have fungal forests/towns/whatever, and labs invaded by anthills, and other cool stuff like that. It'd also include code for creeks, and bike paths, and game trails, and some more map extras, and other stuff like that. It'd start by turning each tile on the overmap into a stack of tiles. So you could have a forest, with a small cabin on it, and a creek running though it, and possible even a game trail crossing through. And then you might have fungus or bees or map extras on top of that.

Though looking at the code, it looks like I'll need to read all the relevant classes again- I haven't worked with cataclysm since it turned into DDA.

But that said, when I'm familiar with the code again and finish my current projects, would you be interested?

Yes. Also I'm trying like hell to make heads or tails of the river over-map generation so I can spawn creeks that branch off the the main river. Essentially just little R-streams that meander 10-15 tiles away from the edge of the river (so about 15-25 from "river_center" or so). Because something has to be feeding those rivers.

i2amroy

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Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead - A roaming horde appears on the horizon!
« Reply #15303 on: December 13, 2014, 07:31:31 pm »

Hmm. So would you guys be interested in a worldgen rewrite?
Oh god yes. A worldgen rewrite (assuming it meets at least some of the requirements) would be amazing! Worldgen is some of the worst code still standing, but since it affects so much, it's incredibly annoying to try to understand, and it interfaces directly with the map code (which is also really bad) people haven't looking into it much. That said I'd highly suggest getting in touch with Kevingranade (azmodean on Bay12, but you'll have better luck in the IRC or on github) and nailing down exactly what some of your goals and methods to accomplish them are. He's our resident fearful leader, and certainly will have ideas about the costs vs. benefits side of various methods, as well as some ideas about how we should accomplish some of our goals.

Basically the things we eventually need worldgen code (not really going into the map side of things, which have their own goals) to be able to do ideally would be:
1) Work at least as sensibly as it does now for tile type placements (rivers, shops, etc.)
2) Handle multiple map-tile structures
3) Be easy to expand on or modify
3b) Be commented for future reference
4) Have at least average performance time. Faster is better obviously, but we'd probably be willing to sacrifice some in exchange for goals 1-3.

If you can get all those then it would almost certainly go in, though there are a few additional end "goals" that would be great to have as well, like:
5) Be able to be sensibly generalized to 3D world gen (ideally this would be built right in, so it could take a building plan in 3D and make it)
6) Be able to do a "rework pass", where we could do things like fungalize terrain, replace buildings with triffidized versions, add massive number of zombie corpses, etc.
7) Be able to take in parameters to change the type world generated, this would include things like terrain type commonality, default base terrain tile, possible modifications to the "Basic" terrain types (like what type of trees grow, etc.).
7b) Be able to take said parameters in from a JSON file, possibly linked to a "region type" that the player would select when generating the world
8) Be able to link overmaps sensibly, so that rivers join with rivers, roads with roads, etc. across overmap boundaries.
9) Be able to specify overmap types, so that we could have a "over-overmap" that would designate these overmaps as ocean, those overmaps as heavily populated, those as mainly forest, and so on.
10) Be able to take overmap type as a passed in parameter, so that we could eventually do things like generate fungalized overmaps when you (eventually) should be able to travel through portals back to some of the fungal homeworlds and so on.

That said if you can even manage to get the first 4 things done (or even 1-2 of them under the current system really) we would almost certainly merge it.

(Note for complexity: Assuming you comment everything that you do well we are totally fine with complex code, assuming that it also plans for eventual expansions by making things independent. It doesn't matter too much how complex something is as long as I'm able to fix little parts of it when they break without needing to do another total rewrite).
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Angle

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Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead - A roaming horde appears on the horizon!
« Reply #15304 on: December 13, 2014, 08:03:26 pm »

Yeah, I could probably do that, at least for the most part. I had actually tackled this before, way back, and gotten most of the way through it, but then I gave up for some reason. I'll need to start over, of course, but I think I can get it working. Of your requirements,

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The things I'll be doing, in more or less exact order, are

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I should note, I won't be starting this immediately. I need to get Agora rolling first. So It'll be anywhere from a week to a couple months before I tackle this.
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Arcvasti

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Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead - A roaming horde appears on the horizon!
« Reply #15305 on: December 13, 2014, 08:20:59 pm »

Yeah, I could probably do that, at least for the most part. I had actually tackled this before, way back, and gotten most of the way through it, but then I gave up for some reason. I'll need to start over, of course, but I think I can get it working. Of your requirements,

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The things I'll be doing, in more or less exact order, are

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I should note, I won't be starting this immediately. I need to get Agora rolling first. So It'll be anywhere from a week to a couple months before I tackle this.

This mostly sounds amazing. Were you ever a rugby player, by any chance?
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Angle

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Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead - A roaming horde appears on the horizon!
« Reply #15306 on: December 13, 2014, 08:26:23 pm »

This mostly sounds amazing. Were you ever a rugby player, by any chance?

Nooooooope. I've never really been into any sports in any fashion.
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Gentlefish

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Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead - A roaming horde appears on the horizon!
« Reply #15307 on: December 13, 2014, 08:27:19 pm »

Ugh, if the code was commented at all, I think I'd be able to understand what was happening in there.

Angle

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Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead - A roaming horde appears on the horizon!
« Reply #15308 on: December 13, 2014, 08:36:07 pm »

Ugh, if the code was commented at all, I think I'd be able to understand what was happening in there.

That at least I think I can manage. It might not be the most comprehensive commenting, and it might not tell you all the details, but there will be comments.

Edit: Now that I think of it, when it comes to 3d maps, I could try and make things work like they do in the code for my perplexicon game.I dunno though, that'd be a hell of a project, especially cause I never truly finished that code.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2014, 09:02:24 pm by Angle »
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azmodean

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Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead - A roaming horde appears on the horizon!
« Reply #15309 on: December 13, 2014, 10:29:55 pm »

I like the sound of your plans in general, and one of my main concerns (keeping support for existing content) looks like something you consider a priority, so that's good to hear.

Looking forward to hearing more about this when you have time :)
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Angle

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Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead - A roaming horde appears on the horizon!
« Reply #15310 on: December 13, 2014, 10:37:30 pm »

I like the sound of your plans in general, and one of my main concerns (keeping support for existing content) looks like something you consider a priority, so that's good to hear.

Looking forward to hearing more about this when you have time :)

Yeah, I'm in favor of more content, not less, so making things incompatible is rather silly.

I'll be back.
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n9103

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Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead - A roaming horde appears on the horizon!
« Reply #15311 on: December 14, 2014, 12:11:51 am »

:D
Can haz mor devs for fav gaem? :P

Sounds like some pretty good plans for worldgen, on both sides.
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Kaitol

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Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead - A roaming horde appears on the horizon!
« Reply #15312 on: December 14, 2014, 01:47:43 am »

In my humble opinion, if a hulk is strong enough to SMASH THROUGH A STONE WALL, its bones and sinew are more than strong enough for use.
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MikaTheCrazy

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Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead - A roaming horde appears on the horizon!
« Reply #15313 on: December 14, 2014, 03:46:21 am »


Slowly clearing a basement of black widow spiders by leading them under a garage door. Makes quite a mess and destroys the chitin, but I'd rather not get within melee distance of one.
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blazing glory

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Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead - A roaming horde appears on the horizon!
« Reply #15314 on: December 14, 2014, 04:00:12 am »

So purifier spawns in labs, where else?

Forget crippling stat debuffs, herbivore is one of the most brutal mutations.

EDIT: Nevermind, managed to find a book on how to make purifier in a lab.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2014, 05:09:26 am by blazing glory »
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