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[i2amroy]

Ok I've done some code checking and testing of the whole size thing and as best as I cna tell nothing is bugged. My guess is that the people who have been having problems were simply so encumbered on their torso that they had a significantly lower melee skill then the thing they were squaring off against (size does give a fairly big bonus to dodging +3, but even with that you should still be getting hits in occasionally). With a 2-melee skill guy with a baseball bat (+3 hit) and 3 ENC on my torso I still managed to kill a dog just fine. Drop down to 0 skill, and 5 ENC though and I didn't hit it once. I'm going to have to say that it's working as intended for now.

And yeah, throwing could use a bit of balancing.

[Sean Mirrsen]

How about zero skill, low encumbrance, and a nailboard? A typical starting character of mine. He should be able to get hits in against children at least, and yet...

[Werdna]

The thing is, melee 'feels' odd with the penalty resulting in "you can never land a hit", it's a little too binary in that once you hit negative skill, that skill becomes useless.  It should be possible for a newbie to hit and kill a rattlesnake while wearing a leather outfit.  You should still be able to occasionally hit a dog or whatever.  Instead of a massive to hit penalty, encumbrance should probably cause a fraction of the damage instead, because your swing has so much energy bled off into all the crap you're swinging around with you.  It took me awhile to draw the line from 'why melee never works?' to my constant 5-6 encumbrance (I'm pretty new to the game).  I think I would've connected the dots sooner if I noticed my pipe doing less and less damage.

Ideally it'd be neat to see Encumbrance result in an increasing reduction in all STR and DEX related bonuses, and increasing the time it takes to use any weapon. 

[Werdna]

Re: throwing, and also shooting and archery, I think one major place they could be toned down in power is to add to hit penalties at very close range (ie 1 maybe 2 squares).  If something is at point blank range, the player's first reaction I think should be to switch to melee.

[i2amroy]

How about zero skill, low encumbrance, and a nailboard? A typical starting character of mine. He should be able to get hits in against children at least, and yet...

Ok a further check shows that you end up being nigh unable to hit a zombie child as a zero-skill, nailboard wielder when you have 3 torso ENC. Less than that and I took it down just fine. I'll take a look into potentially rebalancing this later, but for now it's not bad enough to make it to my immediate list (since that is sort of what ENC is supposed to do anyways, and you do have zero skills, meaning you are totally incompetent at hitting things in a fight).

Re: throwing, and also shooting and archery, I think one major place they could be toned down in power is to add to hit penalties at very close range (ie 1 maybe 2 squares).  If something is at point blank range, the player's first reaction I think should be to switch to melee.

I'm not so sure about that, just because you are up in my face doesn't mean I can't blow you away with a pistol, and in fact it will make it much easier for me to hit you (not accounting for things like nervousness or panic, which would be best accounted for in a separate system).

[Akhier the Dragon hearted]

   Since I took a look at how encumbrance works with melee I will just chime in that an encumbered torso is a death wish. Basically the enemy has a dodge value and you roll to see if you hit. Your skill is the number of virtual dice and your encumbrance affects the size of said dice. You start with a d10 and it lowers by 1 for every bit of torso encumbrance down to a minimum of 2. If your into code then here it is for this stuff:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Code: [Select]

int player::get_hit_base()
{
    int best_bonus = 0;

    // Are we unarmed?
    if (unarmed_attack()) {
        best_bonus = skillLevel("unarmed");
        if (skillLevel("unarmed") > 4)
            best_bonus += skillLevel("unarmed") - 4; // Extra bonus for high levels
    }

    // Using a bashing weapon?
    if (weapon.is_bashing_weapon()) {
        int bash_bonus = int(skillLevel("bashing") / 3);
        if (bash_bonus > best_bonus)
            best_bonus = bash_bonus;
    }

    // Using a cutting weapon?
    if (weapon.is_cutting_weapon()) {
        int cut_bonus = int(skillLevel("cutting") / 2);
        if (cut_bonus > best_bonus)
            best_bonus = cut_bonus;
    }

    // Using a spear?
    if (weapon.has_flag("SPEAR") || weapon.has_flag("STAB")) {
        int stab_bonus = int(skillLevel("stabbing") / 2);
        if (stab_bonus > best_bonus)
            best_bonus = stab_bonus;
    }

    // Creature::get_hit_base includes stat calculations already
    return Creature::get_hit_base() + skillLevel("melee") + best_bonus;
}

int player::hit_roll()
{
// apply martial arts bonuses

 int numdice = get_hit();

 int sides = 10 - encumb(bp_torso);
 int best_bonus = 0;
 if (sides < 2)
  sides = 2;

 numdice += best_bonus; // Use whichever bonus is best.

// Drunken master makes us hit better
 if (has_trait("DRUNKEN")) {
  if (unarmed_attack())
   numdice += int(disease_duration("drunk") / 300);
  else
   numdice += int(disease_duration("drunk") / 400);
 }

// Farsightedness makes us hit worse
 if (has_trait("HYPEROPIC") && !is_wearing("glasses_reading")
     && !is_wearing("glasses_bifocal")) {
  numdice -= 2;
 }

 if (numdice < 1) {
  numdice = 1;
  sides = 8 - encumb(bp_torso);
 }

 return dice(numdice, sides);
}

   I can't quite find how size affects hit chances but it does affect where you can hit. Whoever coded that would have to point me in the right area. It does look reasonable from what I can see but there might just be something odd happening with shorter monsters.

[i2amroy]

Here's the dodge roll effects for size: (Monster.cpp line ~867)

Code: [Select]

  case MS_TINY:  dodgedice += 6; break;
  case MS_SMALL: dodgedice += 3; break;
  case MS_LARGE: dodgedice -= 2; break;
  case MS_HUGE:  dodgedice -= 4; break;
That said I'd highly like to move away from simple "my dice are better than your dice" to something that allows a bit more finer grained control over the rolls eventually, but I've got a fair bit of other reworks in my line first.

[Sharp]

I would like some sort of stance effect thing in DDA like they have in some other RL's, like ADOM where you can have your aggressive stance so bonus to hit and penalty to dodge and likewise a defensive/cowardly stance for penalty to hit and bonus to dodge. I can understand dogs being hard to hit but if you have a mindset of I'm going to hit the dog even as it is hitting me then you should be able to get a hit in which I think seems fair, dogs obviously have their hit and run tactics so being in an aggressive stance can be dangerous but still nice to get the chance to finally whack it.

I would say have changing stance have an time cost with it as well so you can't just try and change stances constantly in a fight to get maximum advantage.

[UristMcDwarf]

I fell into a sinkhole.

So... is that it? Am I done?

[i2amroy]

I fell into a sinkhole.

So... is that it? Am I done?

Unless you have a rope or something, I believe so yeah (though you could always debug a rope in).

[UristMcDwarf]

I fell into a sinkhole.

So... is that it? Am I done?

Unless you have a rope or something, I believe so yeah (though you could always debug a rope in).

Wow. Great. Maybe I would be carrying rope around if it didn't have so much volume. This is my own fault, I accept my fate. 

[Bouchart]

I fell into a sinkhole once and even with a 30 foot rope couldn't get back out.  That was the old version though.

[BigD145]

Start digging. You'll hit something eventually.

[Majestic7]

I'm not so sure about that, just because you are up in my face doesn't mean I can't blow you away with a pistol, and in fact it will make it much easier for me to hit you (not accounting for things like nervousness or panic, which would be best accounted for in a separate system).

Actually, if you have a gun, you shouldn't go closer than three to five meters to someone you are threatening. Closer than that and he has a good chance of grabbing your gun and turning it aside. (This is what they constantly do wrong in movies/TV.) So I guess in this game, could you make it so shooting at the square next to you allows using Melee/Dodge against the shot? I'm not sure if zombies should be able to do it though, I mean, are they smart enough to defend against firearms?

[Graknorke]

I'm not so sure about that, just because you are up in my face doesn't mean I can't blow you away with a pistol, and in fact it will make it much easier for me to hit you (not accounting for things like nervousness or panic, which would be best accounted for in a separate system).

Actually, if you have a gun, you shouldn't go closer than three to five meters to someone you are threatening. Closer than that and he has a good chance of grabbing your gun and turning it aside. (This is what they constantly do wrong in movies/TV.) So I guess in this game, could you make it so shooting at the square next to you allows using Melee/Dodge against the shot? I'm not sure if zombies should be able to do it though, I mean, are they smart enough to defend against firearms?

Stupid fumbling is still going to ruin someone's aim.