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[Grendus]

Do note that mutations tend to be negative rather than positive. Mutations have a 1/3 chance of being bad and a 2/3 chance of being random (which can be good or bad). This is why it's usually advantageous to take the Robust Genome perk if you're going to mutate - it changes the chance to 1/3 positive, 2/3 random which is much better.

Edit: So I cleared the regional school. Aside from taking up alcoholism as a hobby, it wasn't that bad. Class dismissed.

Edit2: Is it just me, or are most of the mixed drinks made with vodka. I think the only one that doesn't involve vodka is the Irish Coffee.

Edit3: Found a bug. The Simple Flamethrower won't allow you to reload it unless it's completely discharged. Moreover, it won't fire if there isn't 100 fuel in it, which makes sense but means you have to unload it if you accidentally loaded a non-divisible-by-100 amount of fuel. Not game breaking (I'm still planning to use it to burn down the Fungal Spire), but irritating.

[Tiruin]

Dont try until radiation heals you.

...huh.
Are you being sarcastic or did something happen to Tiruin so that radiation healed him? If it is the latter, I want that.

Her.

Yus, but passive regen. I mean really, passive regen? No harm to you? It means tanking the whole thing.

Also I've no idea if you're both talking about radiation damage. What I know is radiation = mutation. And I'm happily NOT mutating from it all.

[Silleh Boy]

> Cleansuit.
> Hazmat suit.
> Didn't notice any radiation from the first..err, ~50 turns I spent in there, and the active badge was still green upon examination.
..And my speed was ~106'ish. So I can't fathom how I got swarmed..

Spoiler: Which means to say (click to show/hide)

It's like zombies teleported in after brief lag spell and killed me without me reacting at all. As in, 'didn't have any kind of reaction or reacting time to allot to it'.
And there was sewage in their way! D:<

I've seen this before I believe.
I recall at the time realising i'd taken a fair amount of a beating from a small number of zombies after opening... One of the doors in a lab I believe that was lever opened like a garage, in a storage room.
I assumed at the time that this was because the process was operating out of order.
As in, activate the lever, movement points are deducted immediately thus effectively ending my turn for a period of time, door opens immediately, zombies take advantage of this to get a few free hits in while I wait to recoup movement points enough to get my next turn.
This is merely an assumption, however, as I had zero interest in source diving to find out if that was the case.

[scrdest]

Do note that mutations tend to be negative rather than positive. Mutations have a 1/3 chance of being bad and a 2/3 chance of being random (which can be good or bad). This is why it's usually advantageous to take the Robust Genome perk if you're going to mutate - it changes the chance to 1/3 positive, 2/3 random which is much better.

If anything, I find Robust Genome overpowered, which stops me taking it. The improved positive mutation chance means that over time, with a decent amount of mutagen and purifier, it isn't hard to get a good set of mutations with little to no downsides. Which is great, sure, but the impact of one trait in the ease of that seems a bit much.

To make the tradeoff between skill levels and  traits/stats in chargen a bit more meaninful, I think traits should become less effective toward the lategame.

Except most of the time, Mutagen is a lategame item. And Quick, for example, remains useful throughout the entire game.

[Grendus]

Do note that mutations tend to be negative rather than positive. Mutations have a 1/3 chance of being bad and a 2/3 chance of being random (which can be good or bad). This is why it's usually advantageous to take the Robust Genome perk if you're going to mutate - it changes the chance to 1/3 positive, 2/3 random which is much better.

If anything, I find Robust Genome overpowered, which stops me taking it. The improved positive mutation chance means that over time, with a decent amount of mutagen and purifier, it isn't hard to get a good set of mutations with little to no downsides. Which is great, sure, but the impact of one trait in the ease of that seems a bit much.

To make the tradeoff between skill levels and  traits/stats in chargen a bit more meaninful, I think traits should become less effective toward the lategame.

The skill issue is more a quirk of skills being much easier to get than traits/stats. Getting 'traits' requires mutations, and you flat can't get stats short of certain mutations and bionics. The only way to fix that though would be to make skills dangerous to obtain or making mutations and stats easier to obtain.

[scrdest]

Do note that mutations tend to be negative rather than positive. Mutations have a 1/3 chance of being bad and a 2/3 chance of being random (which can be good or bad). This is why it's usually advantageous to take the Robust Genome perk if you're going to mutate - it changes the chance to 1/3 positive, 2/3 random which is much better.

If anything, I find Robust Genome overpowered, which stops me taking it. The improved positive mutation chance means that over time, with a decent amount of mutagen and purifier, it isn't hard to get a good set of mutations with little to no downsides. Which is great, sure, but the impact of one trait in the ease of that seems a bit much.

To make the tradeoff between skill levels and  traits/stats in chargen a bit more meaninful, I think traits should become less effective toward the lategame.

Except most of the time, Mutagen is a lategame item. And Quick, for example, remains useful throughout the entire game.

Quick's another one that's definitely overpowered. My point is that if you're trying to make the 'best' character, it's never really a good choice to take a couple of levels of survival or firearms as opposed to Quick or Robust Genome, because the 'free' skill levels rapidly become meaningless (assuming the player is skilled/lucky enough to survive the first day without them), whereas RG and Quick will continue to make a big difference throughout the game.

Then Martial Arts trait and the analogues is overpowered as well. You have to be very lucky to find a friendly NPC teacher of the specific one you want. And Optimist, since AFAIK you cannot mutate it. And Tough. And Disease Resistant. ESPECIALLY Disease Resistant. Pretty much every trait that isn't actually not useful enough is overpowered.

Skills don't matter that much, because you can learn them in game, while not all traits are available as mutations, and even then it's a crapshoot if you actually get that specific one.

The whole point of Traits is that they are ironclad, you will never lose neither positive nor negative traits no matter what, whereas Skills fluctuate, are gained and lost as long as you use them.

[beorn080]

How much of an issue would it be, balance wise, to drop skills to just 1 point per 2 levels? For instance, Bionic Patient gives you hydraulic muscles, blood sensors, and metabolic interchange + 10 power for 4 points. Would an 8 in, say, archery be equal to that?

[scrdest]

How much of an issue would it be, balance wise, to drop skills to just 1 point per 2 levels? For instance, Bionic Patient gives you hydraulic muscles, blood sensors, and metabolic interchange + 10 power for 4 points. Would an 8 in, say, archery be equal to that?

I'd say it's a pretty good idea. Bionic Spy, for example, (at 6 points), represents a highly trained (well, as far as essential skills go, i.e. espionage techniques themselves, close combat or marksmanship is not essential, although useful, for a spy) and bio-augmented operative. 8 Archery represents a very experienced archer.

Plus, jobs don't give nearly enough skill points. For example, a Bow Hunter (with 1 level in Bows) is barely able to hit the broad side of the barn, and can only craft the least sophisticated bow there is. Surely a professional bow hunter would have some actual familiarity with his tools of the trade?

Similarly, and Electrician with even 2 levels in Electronics is no Electrician.

[Grendus]

Main issue with most professions is that you actually get less from a profession than you typically do from just buying the skills. Most of the equipment will be replaced fairly quickly. You're best bet is to take either unemployed, shower victim, or even prostitute/hobo for the extra points and just find a way to do without.

Dropping it to 1 point for 2 levels would help a bit. I typically take 1 rank of Unarmed Combat for a martial arts character, and it really does help with the early game. By late game it's a wasted point though. Six in-game weeks in and I have scores in the 10-13 range on all the skills I use frequently. Buying a few ranks of Marksmanship wouldn't help, by this point the exp gain for mowing down zombies is minimal.

Edit: What might help is, once we get skill decay to a state that isn't horrible, having bought skills in the early game increase skill gain and reduce skill decay. A survivor who started with 4 ranks in Marksmanship has a real aptitude for the skill, and would learn it more readily and forget it less frequently than a survivor who only took it up because the food had a tendency to run faster than he could.

[beorn080]

Edit: What might help is, once we get skill decay to a state that isn't horrible, having bought skills in the early game increase skill gain and reduce skill decay. A survivor who started with 4 ranks in Marksmanship has a real aptitude for the skill, and would learn it more readily and forget it less frequently than a survivor who only took it up because the food had a tendency to run faster than he could.

That might work. Drop it down to 1 point per 1 skill rank, and make them work like fast learner, with the effect being cumulative for each point you put in. So, 1 point would be about 1/3 of fast learner, 3 would be equal to it, and 6 would be a double dose of fast learner, but just for that skill.

Also, I have the strangest sight of, if this is implemented, someone taking self defense training for krav maga, 1 in every stat, shower victim, and then throwing every single point possible into unarmed combat and starting at like 30 and getting another rank every time he hit something.

[Grendus]

Edit: What might help is, once we get skill decay to a state that isn't horrible, having bought skills in the early game increase skill gain and reduce skill decay. A survivor who started with 4 ranks in Marksmanship has a real aptitude for the skill, and would learn it more readily and forget it less frequently than a survivor who only took it up because the food had a tendency to run faster than he could.

That might work. Drop it down to 1 point per 1 skill rank, and make them work like fast learner, with the effect being cumulative for each point you put in. So, 1 point would be about 1/3 of fast learner, 3 would be equal to it, and 6 would be a double dose of fast learner, but just for that skill.

Also, I have the strangest sight of, if this is implemented, someone taking self defense training for krav maga, 1 in every stat, shower victim, and then throwing every single point possible into unarmed combat and starting at like 30 and getting another rank every time he hit something.

"He was the most skilled paraplegic ninja we ever saw. If he hadn't cut his arm on that window and bled to death, he might have become a legend."

[GrizzlyAdamz]

As in, activate the lever, movement points are deducted immediately thus effectively ending my turn for a period of time, door opens immediately, zombies take advantage of this to get a few free hits in

That sounds probable! GJ!

If anything, I find Robust Genome overpowered, which stops me taking it. The improved positive mutation chance means that over time, with a decent amount of mutagen and purifier, it isn't hard to get a good set of mutations with little to no downsides. Which is great, sure, but the impact of one trait in the ease of that seems a bit much.

To make the tradeoff between skill levels and  traits/stats in chargen a bit more meaninful, I think traits should become less effective toward the lategame.

Hogwash! In addition to what scrdest said, (and well said btw), not only is it random, but the average you'd be approaching is 2 good traits for every 1 bad.
That's kinda mediocre- 2 good eggs isn't necessarily worth the one rotten one. Sure you can keep chugging mutagen/purifier if you don't get what you want, but if the RNG wills it you'll be stuck with something like Vomitous into perpetuity. Or get more of it.
All robust genetics does is make mutations palatable. Baring savescumming, drinking mutagen without it is a losing proposition.

Also,
@scrdest
I'd say it's more of a mid-early game thing, but then I find mine instead of cooking it.

Spoiler: OOC (click to show/hide)

Her.

Out of curiosity, why that avatar?

[scrdest]

Also,
@scrdest
I'd say it's more of a mid-early game thing, but then I find mine instead of cooking it.

Heh, thanks. I said it's generally late-game because sure, you can even find a bunch on your shelter's doorstep, or a Sci ID with a lab nearby, but that's RNG gods being merciful.

On the other hand, now that I thought about it some more, it's more of a late-midgame - THE lategame thing is CBMs, since they depend on three skills to be useable properly, and if you want to construct them you might need exotic components (plutonium, superalloy...).

Early-midgame is Tainted Tornado - it's basically a hobo mutagen, it does give you mutations at the cost of messing you up severely (morale malus PLUS major depressant effects, although a sip of TT before a good night's sleep negates the penalties).



Also, Tings I Lernt At Kataklyzm: You can use those big pieces of cloth that are hanging on the windows as a big piece of cloth to cover your body while you sleep. Cue the spelling - a derp is me for not thinking of that.

[Grendus]

Is the website down for anybody else?

[scrdest]

I suspect 0.9 might just went live shortly. The changelog on github already changes the version to 0.9.


Mutagen is random, and even with RG, or even especially then, you can't get all the mutations. Plus, RG has only a very, very specific use - Mutagen. Unless you actually get the Rad Healing, radiation mutations are negligible, because you'd have to risk being dead, and given how Cata is permadeath, it's not a risk you want to take.

Even Fast Learner or, say, Light Eater is going to be more useful 90% of the time, but the 10% of the time is when RG really shines.