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[Sheb]

Still, it's more silly to take apart one gun and turn it into another one.

[miauw62]

Still, it's more silly to take apart one gun and turn it into another one.

You can't take apart a car and turn it into another one, can you? You could use multiple guns to make a different gun, or you could remove things from said gun to make it a smaller one, but I don't think you'd be able to transmute an AK-47 into an M16.

[CognitiveDissonance]

Still, it's more silly to take apart one gun and turn it into another one.

You can't take apart a car and turn it into another one, can you? You could use multiple guns to make a different gun, or you could remove things from said gun to make it a smaller one, but I don't think you'd be able to transmute an AK-47 into an M16.

To avoid that issue, just make the crafted guns unique. You can only make an M16 from M16 parts. So have it be a "Scavenged 7.62x39 Assault Rifle" with varying stats.

[Sheb]

Yeah, but then you'd have to track for each part what firearm it comes from. Seeing the sheer number of firearms we have, we're talking hundreds of parts here.

[CognitiveDissonance]

Yeah, but then you'd have to track for each part what firearm it comes from. Seeing the sheer number of firearms we have, we're talking hundreds of parts here.

Do you? Item Type, Weapon Type, Ammo Type

Barrel, Pistol, 9mm

[Krevsin]

Yeah, but then you'd have to track for each part what firearm it comes from. Seeing the sheer number of firearms we have, we're talking hundreds of parts here.

Do you? Item Type, Weapon Type, Ammo Type

Barrel, Pistol, 9mm

That could work, provided "rifle" and "assault rifle" are two different categories.

[Akhier the Dragon hearted]

Note the first part was written before the ninja invasion
   You would not be able to take apart a AK-47 and turn it into an M16 because they use different ammo. Now you could take the right barrel and replace the one on an AK-47 to make it fire the M16 ammo but you would not have an M16. You should just have the parts of a gun be labeled something like AK-47 stock and unless you combine it with all the other AK-47 bits it ask the player to name it or something. Yes this would mean as ninja Sheb pointed out that there would be hundreds of parts but there are some things you could make generic like my use of the stock, could just make it an untyped thing and certain guns just have certain stock types. That way if you want a rifle stock on your pistol for better accuracy you can though it would take both hands to fire and yes this is a real thing. Also ninja CognitiveDissonance, I think he was just reffering to because we have so many gun types we would have for instance a million and one different barrel types. Though this did get me thinking. What if as soon as you take a gun apart you lose the label? So when you take your .45 Glock apart you don't have a .45 Glock barrel, you just have a .45 barrel so if you want to have a Glock you have to find one and keep it in together.

[Graknorke]

I would have thought that the point of the system would be to make guns' properties be based on their components.
So if you disassembled a .45 Glock and put all the parts back together you would still have a functionally identical Glock.

[Sharp]

Does it really matter about "named" guns? If you replace the barrel of an AK-47 to fire 5.56mm NATO then you practically have an M16, it might not fire as fast but muzzle velocity will be similar as it's ammunition which is a key factor in that regard, barrel length will affect accuracy.

Differences will be the gas-pump (modifiable as well why not to make it fire faster (bigger burst)), the wooden stock vs the plastic stock which affects the weight and the sights. If you can take a 6L V8 engine and put into a quad-bike then you can practically turn an AK-47 into an M16, just going to need a welder xD.

The big point is that it would make guns different from items now as they would be more like vehicles and not be tradeable with NPC's as well as be a pretty big coding process and probably require modifications to the inventory system as well. Whether the effort is worth it is up to whoever wants to code it

[azmodean]

Regarding interactons with the rest of the game, it's really not a problem, once you craft a gun, it would just be a (gun) item with certain properties, and that's more or less the end of it.  The only time all the sub-assemblies would come into play would be when you're interacting with it through the gun crafting interface.

Similarly, I'm not terribly concerned with item spam, because we wouldn't generally be spawning gun components by themselves that much, mostly it'd be a matter of franken-guns assembled from parts from many different guns.  Likewise, you'd have just a few e.g. barrel items, and properties like length, thickness, calibre, etc to differentiate them for the full-on procedurally-generated goodness.

It would be a LOT of overhead to specify the items that make up an existing gun, unless we could have some kind of reverse templating system that takes an existing gun definition and automatically determines what parts make it up.  I really don't want to make building a parts manifest for a gun be a requirement to adding one to the game, and the alternative is to have guns not be dissassemblable by default, only if they have such a manifest.  So basically the template thing would be the only way to go, and I'm not sure how that'd work.

Technical issues aside, there's the question of tone.  We're shooting for a tone where you're scraping by and scavenging/bodging together the things you need, and gunsmithing isn't really the kind of thing where you can make it good enough with a bunch of elbow grease.  To do anything more advanced than servicing gun parts that are intended to go together, it takes serious know-how, and serious tools.

[Graknorke]

Well the fact that we can build walls and things leads me to think that even with gun-smithing tools you can still be 'scraping by', because the scope of where you need to be is constantly changing. Sure, some people might be satisfied with just surviving off the ruins of society, but there will be many who want to build bigger bastions of humanity. And going bigger means bigger resistance and more attention from wildlife and undead.

[Sheb]

Unless the parts are gun-specific, you'd be able to disassemble a USP 9m and reassemble it into a Glock 19...

[Knight of Fools]

As awesome as I find the idea of gun crafting, I think that Cataclysm would benefit more from a robust and flexible weapon mod system. We already have a pretty awesome system, but the only thing it's lacking is the ability to put more than four mods on a weapon and some more variety. If you've ever played Black Light: Retribution you have an idea of the level of customization I'm thinking about.

For example, having a variety of barrels that improve range, damage, and recoil, a variety of grips that improve accuracy and recoil, a variety of receivers that can change burst behavior, change a weapon from bolt action to semi-auto, or even vented receivers that can lower the chance of jamming (If that ever gets put in) and reduces recoil, night sights that allow you to use a pistol's iron sights more effectively at night, laser sights that reduce recoil in close quarters... And heck, while we're at it let's include barrel guards, sights with different effects (Like night or thermal vision), slings that allow you to draw weapons quickly, stocks that can affect accuracy and recoil, tripods, or even completely reconfiguring a weapon to use an exotic ammo type (Like having a pistol that fires 5.56).

And I'm talking about stuff you can do with all guns. Right now there's a lot of mods that are exclusive to rifles. Naturally, the system would benefit most from being reliant on crafting rather than drops due to the sheer number of mods. You could scavenge parts that would effectively destroy a weapon (We'll say you dismantled it beyond repair, thus lowing the number of components to "[Weapon Type] Parts" or "[Ammo Type] [Weapon Type] Parts") and after gathering a sufficient number of parts and maybe a few exotic items (Especially tools) you'll be able to make things that you need. This could easily replace any crazy crafting system without getting too crazy.

[Graknorke]

That sounds like the same thing to me...

[Sharp]

Technical issues aside, there's the question of tone.  We're shooting for a tone where you're scraping by and scavenging/bodging together the things you need, and gunsmithing isn't really the kind of thing where you can make it good enough with a bunch of elbow grease.  To do anything more advanced than servicing gun parts that are intended to go together, it takes serious know-how, and serious tools.

Well in that regard the tone is that it is a game and not a survival simulator (like Unreal World), and guns are less complex then vehicles.

That being said Scrapheap Challenge is one of my favourite TV shows and if they can make all that amazing vehicles and contraptions and rockets from scrap then it's probably possible to make some guns from gun parts.