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[GlyphGryph]

Look, because it's hard to get, I'll put it as simple as I can.

• Remove the letter assignments from items
• When you press 'i' you enter your inventory, like normal, but the items listed on the left are fucking alphabetized

I still don't understand how this would do anything to fix the item limit. In fact, since you then say you don't want capitals, this would /half/ the item limit.

So yeah, suffice to say, I still don't understand in the slightest what you're trying to explain or how it would help. Hell, your two points there could basically be summarized as "provide no way to access anything in your inventory ever", near as I can tell, since you're removing letter assignments but aren't proposing anything to replace them with (and letter assignments are how items are currently selected)

[Mictlantecuhtli]

Typing, I dunno what happened, I got sent mid-post. >:c

Look, because it's hard to get [and even worse when I'm all sorts of hungover and Bay12 is sabotaging me!], I'll put it as simple as I can. I honestly didn't figure my idea was so obtuse, heh.

• Remove the letter assignments from items, more specifically, the randomly deciding to use 'U' as a key for an item that I picked up
• REQUIRED for this: equipped items, give them # assignments
• When you press 'i' you enter your inventory, like normal, but the items listed on the left are alphabetized for accessibility
• When you then press '>' for next page, the items read [in my case] as follows:
  'a' Combat Knife
  'b' Duct Tape
  'c' Hammer
  and so on..
  

This has the following effects:

• Makes it so you don't have to search your entire inventory to find the [usually random Capitol] letter assignment for an item.
• Removes item limit that exists due to the amount of keys you can have on a keyboard.
• Increases speed of use and accessibility a whole lot. I cannot explain how much of a pain in the ass it is to have to use "P" specifically for an item randomly. It bothered me in Nethack.
  
  • Would make the 'assign hotkey' button actually useful! [As opposed to me only ever using it to put the book I'm reading/crowbar on the key 'a']

Double bonus: Add your idea into it;

"eat" brings you to the Comestibles page
"activate/apply" brings you to the Tools page
"equip" brings you to the Equipment page
"reload" brings you to the Ammunition page (assuming it doesn't happen automatically)

Only reason I thought of this was because there's only about 20 slots used on a page of inventory [on the left], which would lend well to a-z being used only per page, as opposed to a-Z being used inventory-wide. Then the item limit is gone.

[GlyphGryph]

Ah, okay then.

Anyway, here's my proposal:
http://www.cataclysm.glyphgryph.com/smf/index.php?topic=23.0

It still results in a 52 or 62 item limit /per category/ but hopefully that would be more workable.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

I like your idea much more than the way it is now, but once again that's just a patch to work around the system's limitations. I fleshed out my idea more above, and I apologize for sounding a bit snarky before. I hadn't had my coffee. I love you for even working on this, I just feel like the inventory system is one of the only real built-in flaws the game has. And you honestly only have one chance to fix that if you're ever going to, unless you want to rework it later from the bottom-up like Toady does in those neat two-year updates he does.

[miauw62]

I agree with Mic. His proposed system supports theoretically infinite items, so you'll never have to worry about the inventory system again.

[GlyphGryph]

But it also means that you will have to look for an item every single time you access the screen, instead of finding it once and knowing exactly where it is going to be. I mean, there are already complaints about items occassionally changing their assigned letter, and this means everything would have it's assigned letter changed every single time you used something, or held it, or dropped it.

It means every single access to the inventory screen would be a /search/ action, instead of just a find action. And potentially a search action across multiple pages. I'm not sure that's the best solution either, especially with the amount of items to keep track of.

The idea of maintaining "hotkeys" might work, since it was mentioned, and some sort of combination approach might be the best idea. Perhaps have the inventory default page be the "hotkey" page, or have items assigned to hotkeys occupy the top portion of every page and claim those given letters permanently.

A category breakdown means that there's less to search through for each item (assuming it's obvious which category it will be found in), a hotkey system with assignable fixed items (which would definitely need an arbitrary limit assigned to it, however), and a dyanmically lettered paging system to allow for an infinite number of items?

But then there's the question of whether or not something to that extent is even needed, or the best use for the actual styles people play. Maybe it is...

[snelg]

I really like Mic's suggestion too, though I can imagine it would be harder to implement.
Not sure about sorting items alphabetically though. I'm pretty sure it puts the newest thing at the bottom right now which might work better when trying to keep items at the same letter/postition in the list.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

But it also means that you will have to look for an item every single time you access the screen, instead of finding it once and knowing exactly where it is going to be. I mean, there are already complaints about items occassionally changing their assigned letter, and this means everything would have it's assigned letter changed every single time you used something, or held it, or dropped it.

There's no such thing as assigning letters in my idea. It simply shows what you're looking at and has the letter to choose it in view. Considering you're limited to, at max, around 200 volume, the amount of pages to 'search' through would be, at max, around 4 or 5 if you're ridiculous like me and load up with every container you can find.

This would be infinitely more accessible and less random than the first item in your inventory being listed as 'Y' and the final item being 'b'.

Not sure about sorting items alphabetically though. I'm pretty sure it puts the newest thing at the bottom right now which might work better when trying to keep items at the same letter/postition in the list.

Not the items, the letter assignments. I'm talking about how my inventory is listed as 'Y' then 'c' then 'i' then 'D' for items when it should just read 'a' 'b' 'c'. Not just an aesthetic difference, I promise, as it would make choosing the items you see on the screen infinitely more easy then the way it is now.

[GlyphGryph]

Mict, I don't... I think there's a serious gap in your presentation, as every time you post I feel like I'm missing something major.

You say there are no letter assignments, and then talk about sorting by letter assignment.
You say that you have a max number of pages of 4 or 5, which is fine, but the issue was that every attempt to access the inventory becomes a search at all (while as, right now, if you know the letter it's not an issue)
You say to switch to number assignments (I think), but give examples of "0" and "99", which is technically impossible to implement, and seems to conflict with later statements about alphabetical order. Though I guess you do only mention that for worn equipment, but I still don't understand the point.

It's just incredibly confusing. I'm back to having no actual idea how to implement what you might be looking for again, because important components of it seem ill-defined.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

Well, I don't know how to put it any more simply. You're looking at it from a weird view. The system as is assigns 'hotkeys' to items as they are inserted into the inventory. This makes it so you can, theoretically, memorize the key of the item as you pick it up and use it quickly from that point onward.

What this does in practice is it muddles up the entirety of your inventory as items are listed by category.

So: You pick up a weapon after you pick up all sorts of tools and food, and the weapon is assigned a random, unwieldy capitol letter while it somehow takes the top spot on your inventory.

It should list the inventory as you see it, with your items listed as 'a, b, c' and so forth. It's really, really not complicated at all. The number assignments are for equipped items only. Not inventory.

There is no 'searching' involved in the Cataclysm inventory, it is categorized and easy to find the types of items you are looking for. The only searching I ever do is to find out what the fuck letter an item is using at the moment I'm trying to use it.

It's the limit on the amount of items you can have because of this silly system of having hotkeys assigned and determined on pickup [which, therefore, makes it so you can only have 54 items in your inventory since you cannot 'choose' anything other than those letters]. You should list the items on the screen and that's it. a-z to pick something on the page.

The issue is the fact that letter assignments to items are so random as to be rendered useless [not to mention them changing all the time anyways], and the fact that this also makes it so you can't hold more than 54 items for a system that happens to be so unwieldy and cumbersome. If your team want to keep it like that, it's fine, but it's definitely not an attractive or useful system and even as an experienced player of Cataclysm [and cumbersome Roguelikes in general!] I find it infringes upon my enjoyment of the game as a whole, I dunno. I mean, I consider myself a die-hard of this genre and it bothers me how the inventory works.

[TempAcc]

Question, how do I "wield" my martial arts again? I picked something up then dropped it now I just have fists and not my taekwondo :C

[The Darkling Wolf]

Press the _ key on the main screen (Not inventory) to select your martial arts.

[GlyphGryph]

So you ARE proposing dynamic letter assignments with a paging system then. Letters are assigned whenever you load a page, and (presumably) there are a certain number of items listed per page.

How do you determine the actual order the items are in? You say it should be ordered by letter assignments, and by category, but the first doesn't work for ordering in a dynamic system, and the second doesn't shed light on the ordering within the category.

Lets have an example.

I start with nothing.
I pick up some boots.
I pick up a shirt.
I pick up some flip flops.
I pick up a gun.
I pick up some food.
I check my inventory screen. What do I see? (a)
I eat my food.
I check my inventory screen. What do I see? (b)
I put on my boots.
I pick up some aspirin.
I check my inventory screen. What do I see? (c)
I hold my gun.
I take off my boots.
I check my inventory screen. What do I see? (d)

I think in this case, an example would (hopefully) clarify the remaining problems I've got.

And again, I don't like the current item implementation. But as has been mentioned, if we try to fix it, we've probably only got one chance, it would be nice to make sure we get it right, and don't just exchange it for a system with different problems.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

I think in this case, an example would (hopefully) clarify the remaining problems I've got.

And again, I don't like the current item implementation. But as has been mentioned, if we try to fix it, we've probably only got one chance, it would be nice to make sure we get it right, and don't just exchange it for a system with different problems.

Spoiler: Whoops forgot to spoiler (click to show/hide)

And continue onward like that. Does this make sense? You'd have to implement the two-number input to select the equipment, but this mock up basically represents my dream inventory here. Just throw the items into their categories when you pick them up [sorted as it is already, except I do have problems when a tool gets thrown to the bottom of the list after being used because it's the 'newest'], fudge assigning them 'hotkeys' off-the-bat. You can do that yourself for items you find important. Except then hotkeys in-inventory would need to be limited to A-Z, which I would find to be much easier to handle.

[GlyphGryph]

How do you determine that it is "nails" that gets assigned letter "b" on the first page?

If you drop the nails, does "combat knife" become assigned to letter "p" on page 1?

And yeah, it would have to be 00, 01, 02, 03 etc to be workable for the equipped stuff numbers.