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[Truean]

I am not sure what to say. Reading these last few pages has not been fun, and has actually been quite difficult for me. I would have hoped that I would have received some benefit of the doubt, having run this game on and off for eight months and 290 pages, but that clearly is not the case. As I do not need this level of negativity in my life, I am going to take a break. See you around the forums.

*pokes head in*

GODDAMNIT YOU IDIOTS.

Agreed.

Mal, you are appreciated. Thank you for everything you've done.

Most of the internet is complaining and nobody wants to hear complaining. Mal doesn't owe us anything at all. Not. One. Thing. He's been nice enough to use his spare time to give us all this for free. He doesn't have to foreshadow or explain things out of character as the DM. Calling out the DM like this is never good and doesn't / didn't end well. I'm sure Mal would've give us answers if we would've looked for them in game in more than one place. Mal is in charge here. The main goal now should be to get him to return, because without him, there is no story.

We now have (had?) a DM saying stuff like, "Reading these last few pages has not been fun, and has actually been quite difficult for me," and "As I do not need this level of negativity in my life, I am going to take a break." That is a major problem and it doesn't matter why. Excuses aren't going to help here, apologizing to Mal might. We just drove the DM away from his own game and out the door.... Arguing has killed this thread a couple times. Please don't. We want this story back and as long as our DM feels like this, for whatever reason, that isn't going to happen.

Please come back Mal.

[GreatWyrmGold]

We have probably already lost our wife (cannot hold land in her name, so has probably left our lands to return to the Duke. She probably also thinks us dead).

WE have probably already lost our lands. (Reassigned to another surviving lord due to our apparent death).

Aren't there regents for this kind of thing? We've got an heir, after all.

And who could be our regent? the Duke? probably dead. One of our retainers? Probably dead, and not noble so therefore cannot be regent.

I don't follow. As I imagine it, a regent is simply someone who rules until the proper heir is old enough to. No personal connection to the deceased required. Did I miss something?

We will have lost our lands. If we suddenly pop up at the dukes place, assuming he actually survived (and by the fact that the Duke was in the cavalry charge that got decimated by !!!SURPRISE MAGIC GRENADES!!!!, i highly doubt that) we may get our wife back, but i highly doubt that as well.

You're pessimistic. Especially since the only person likely to oppose our claim is whoever was placed on the throne in our place...and not, say, the duke whose nieve we married or the king who we saved the life of.

At the moment we have FUCK ALL. No land, equipment, skills, supporters and no fucking chance. The hospital is probably the best place to stay. After all, in the state we are in now, we haven't a hope in hell of getting to the capital or to our lands alive.

Depends on the state of the nation.

The state of the nation is probably somewhere between 'mostly fucked' and 'hell' at the moment. WE have only just gotten out of a devastating plague. THEN there was a huge sea raider invasion that almost destroyed the capital and killed the king. If the roads are NOT crawling with bandits, i would be surprised.

It's been a few months. If the Raiders were defeated at the battle where we fell unconscious, as they probably were, that's plenty of time to rebuild and such. And anyways I don't see the connection between "lots of people die" and "Bandits!!"

And there is nothing bandits like more than to rob and kill a lone invalid on the road, whether or not he actually has anything on him......

Yes, because bandits are in it for the violence, and not the gold.

[Plato Play-Doh]

I am not sure what to say. Reading these last few pages has not been fun, and has actually been quite difficult for me. I would have hoped that I would have received some benefit of the doubt, having run this game on and off for eight months and 290 pages, but that clearly is not the case. As I do not need this level of negativity in my life, I am going to take a break. See you around the forums.

*pokes head in*

GODDAMNIT YOU IDIOTS.

Agreed.

Mal, you are appreciated. Thank you for everything you've done.

Most of the internet is complaining and nobody wants to hear complaining. Mal doesn't owe us anything at all. Not. One. Thing. He's been nice enough to use his spare time to give us all this for free. He doesn't have to foreshadow or explain things out of character as the DM. Calling out the DM like this is never good and doesn't / didn't end well. I'm sure Mal would've give us answers if we would've looked for them in game in more than one place. Mal is in charge here. The main goal now should be to get him to return, because without him, there is no story.

We now have (had?) a DM saying stuff like, "Reading these last few pages has not been fun, and has actually been quite difficult for me," and "As I do not need this level of negativity in my life, I am going to take a break." That is a major problem and it doesn't matter why. Excuses aren't going to help here, apologizing to Mal might. We just drove the DM away from his own game and out the door.... Arguing has killed this thread a couple times. Please don't. We want this story back and as long as our DM feels like this, for whatever reason, that isn't going to happen.

Please come back Mal.

All of the this.

Also, to the people complaining about Mal "breaking his own rules", Stone has an imperfect understanding of events. In the heat of battle any number of details could have gone unnoticed. Seriously, something that appears to be unusual or unrealistic just raises my curiosity regarding how it happened. There's something Stone didn't know about the Sea Raiders, is anyone really surprised by this? Mal, your talent for this is unmatched. even if this was a mistake, which I doubt, I'm sure that you are more than capable of turning it into something awesome. People who complain are just ungrateful.

I don't follow. As I imagine it, a regent is simply someone who rules until the proper heir is old enough to. No personal connection to the deceased required. Did I miss something?

Wouldn't Marna be the natural choice for regency? Since she is the child's parent and all?

It's been a few months. If the Raiders were defeated at the battle where we fell unconscious, as they probably were, that's plenty of time to rebuild and such. And anyways I don't see the connection between "lots of people die" and "Bandits!!"

When tragedy strikes, the enforcement of laws along the road lessens, and many people are displaced from their homes. Homeless groups of starving people + lawlessness=bandits.

Yes, because bandits are in it for the violence, and not the gold.

Food is just as good. Do you really think they'll believe us when we say we have nothing?

[GreatWyrmGold]

I don't follow. As I imagine it, a regent is simply someone who rules until the proper heir is old enough to. No personal connection to the deceased required. Did I miss something?

Wouldn't Marna be the natural choice for regency? Since she is the child's parent and all?

*shrugs* Regardless, the Stone family probably has a good claim to Feroshire and such.

It's been a few months. If the Raiders were defeated at the battle where we fell unconscious, as they probably were, that's plenty of time to rebuild and such. And anyways I don't see the connection between "lots of people die" and "Bandits!!"

When tragedy strikes, the enforcement of laws along the road lessens, and many people are displaced from their homes. Homeless groups of starving people + lawlessness=bandits.

That requires the people to be starving and not dead or working. Besides, as I noted, it's been months since the battle. It's entirely plausible that any new bandits are under control again.

Yes, because bandits are in it for the violence, and not the gold.

Food is just as good. Do you really think they'll believe us when we say we have nothing?

Yes, because it doesn't take a lot of nothing to prove that we're not carrying anything.

[Gervassen]

When a post begins by agreeing with someone shouting YOU IDIOTS, then it certainly isn't trying to solve anything. I had doubts whether I should reply to you, Truean, but in a whimsical mood, I will pretend that you aren't trying to escalate this.

He doesn't have to foreshadow or explain things out of character as the DM.

He could also attempt to ignore gravity and float to the moon, but fundamental rules apply to everyone. Foreshadowing is a crucial literary device to maintain suspension of disbelief during a particularly sharp turn in a narrative. You can say that Mal doesn't need good narrative, but then that would be a bit silly of you, wouldn't it?

Mal is in charge here. The main goal now should be to get him to return, because without him, there is no story.

He'll return, if he feels that there is more awesome stuff to do. He can't be forced back by abasing ourselves at his feet for the small sins of pointing out that he is not a god and wrote some flawed updates. He may simply be tired of the format. The fact is that the monthly update structure has been abolished recently in favor of a continuous roleplay segment. Based on current events, I see no easy and direct path to resuming actual Lordship of a settlemnt in the near term. There's a telling hint in here that Mal may simply be bored with the original premise of the game.

We now have (had?) a DM saying stuff like, "Reading these last few pages has not been fun, and has actually been quite difficult for me," and "As I do not need this level of negativity in my life, I am going to take a break." That is a major problem and it doesn't matter why. Excuses aren't going to help here, apologizing to Mal might.

Show me something that merits my apology, and it will be speedily forthcoming. I'm still interested in more updates, and I would like to expedite them in whatever way possible. However, it is true that my suspension of disbelief was broken. It's true that it felt as though player decisions had no role in the outcomes. I can't give a sincere apology for these impressions or the circumspect way that I voiced them.

So in general, I will simply apologise for having been an overall thoroughly incorrigible and utterly contemptible scoundrel my entire life, long before and leading upto and during the proceedings of this thread. Make of that what you will.

[Gamerlord]

Oh for crying out loud Gervassen. Can you at least try to sound apologetic?

[Gervassen]

I believe I mentioned something regarding my incorrigibility and contemptibility.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Oh for crying out loud Gervassen. Can you at least try to sound apologetic?

He can, but he won't unless someone explains to him why an apology is needed using logic he'll accept.

[speedyth]

a very sad day for this thread... Although I have been lurking in this thread for quite some time, I find it disappointing that Everyone decided to flame Mal for a bad post. Even though I personally didn't like his last update, I respected his literary decision to put it in because I (gasp!) love the proverbial monkey wrench put into my plans occasionally. It just makes the game more FUN!

[Plato Play-Doh]

Show me something that merits my apology, and it will be speedily forthcoming. I'm still interested in more updates, and I would like to expedite them in whatever way possible. However, it is true that my suspension of disbelief was broken. It's true that it felt as though player decisions had no role in the outcomes. I can't give a sincere apology for these impressions or the circumspect way that I voiced them.

I can think of a couple of things you could apologize for, namely refusing to at least give Mal the benefit of the doubt, and getting caught up in "anachronism," when explosives, though not present in the real-world middle ages, have been used fairly often in medieval fiction, and seem plausible to anyone who hasn't decided to take "this is how it happened in the real world" like 50 steps too far.

[stabbymcstabstab]

^ Its true.

[kahn1234]

Show me something that merits my apology, and it will be speedily forthcoming. I'm still interested in more updates, and I would like to expedite them in whatever way possible. However, it is true that my suspension of disbelief was broken. It's true that it felt as though player decisions had no role in the outcomes. I can't give a sincere apology for these impressions or the circumspect way that I voiced them.

I can think of a couple of things you could apologize for, namely refusing to at least give Mal the benefit of the doubt, and getting caught up in "anachronism," when explosives, though not present in the real-world middle ages, have been used fairly often in medieval fiction, and seem plausible to anyone who hasn't decided to take "this is how it happened in the real world" like 50 steps too far.

I dont think Gav would have a problem with the explosives part had they actually been foreshadowed or there had, at some point, being a reference to 'small iron balls' or something that let us know the Sea Raiders had them.

The main problem is not explosive its the fact that their had lost their supply trains, had no access to the river, no access to the sea, no access to friendly land, no access to their allies and no way of getting something like grenades fro our land, which all begs the question:

Just WHERE did they get them?

That is what has broken my suspension of disbelief.

Add into it the fact that whilst we were building up Feroshire, we went through a phase of which the outcome was the agreement that anything more than a few decades within our current time frame (which i assume is somewhere between the late 1300's and the late 1400's) cannot be used. The grenade type weapons the Sea Raiders some how acquired should not be around till the 1800's at the earliest, a good 400 years later.

Let alone the fact that the Sea Raiders are so averse to metallurgy that they use shoddy weapons and wear little to no armour which means they couldn't have made them. And, even if they had them since the start of their campaign, why didn't they use them in the Second Siege of Torchester? or the siege of the nations Capital? With the amount of explosives you would have to use to stop a cavalry charge, you could have blown a hole the size of Alaska in them and been into the city in no time.

But, instead, they decide to wait around outside, get hammered by a Ducal relief force and then encircled by more reinforcements? Unbelievable.

And as for regents, if Mal is following the medieval laws, Marna may not be able to act as regent due to being female. We know no other male nobles (because a regent has to be a noble) that could act as regent for our son. Therefore, our lands would be given to someone else on our death. UNLESS the Duke survived and is acting as our regent, which is possible due to the Duke being a blood relative of Marna and also a close ally to us.


I love this thread. I think Mal is a fantastic GM. But i cant just stand by whilst the story is flipped upside down, possibly setting us all the way back to square one. The last two updates had more (plot) holes in than Swiss cheese after a shotgun blast.

[Truean]

What you are fighting about doesn't exist anymore without, the DM, Mal, who has been driven out of his own thread....

I say again, Mal owes us NOTHING. Not one thing, period. It doesn't matter; hands down. The extent that you disagree with that is the extent that you are incorrect. Nobody wants to hear more whining, because the internet is full of it.  Mal does (did?) this because he is awesome. Quit criticizing Mal and maybe, MAYBE, he might come back. IF we are lucky.... If you don't like what the DM is doing, then too bad for you. It is his game, not mine, not yours, not anyone else's. This is Mal's stuff. Without Mal, you have nothing to complain about, because there is no story without Mal, period. We have been lucky enough to have this provided for us. Mal has been driven away and if anyone can't see that as the main problem, then I'm following Mal right out the door....

Nobody said anything about you Gerv, guilty conscience? Please quit assuming people are talking about you and inserting yourself into conversations. You've routinely criticized and shouted down everybody, including the DM this time, who is now gone. Several people have chosen not to talk with you here because you keep trying to "win" conversations by shouting people down and making unfair comparisons that make other people look foolish.  I'm not going to participate in any fights with you Gerv. It isn't worth it; I don't care. There is a reason people are ignoring you and taking a tone in the last few posts. I'm not going to continue this conversation. I'm not going to listen to any argument that differs from "Mal doesn't owe us anything." I'm not going to entertain how Mal should be expected to do certain things because people think he should. It's his game; we've been lucky enough to be part of it. Now that Mal is gone; there is no game. There will be no game until and unless we are lucky enough to have him come back. The game is dead and that trumps everything else right now. We bicker while Rome burns.... Nothing anybody can complain about matters next to that.

Does everybody get that? Mal not here means there is no game to complain about or play. We need Mal back.

I am not sure what to say. Reading these last few pages has not been fun, and has actually been quite difficult for me. I would have hoped that I would have received some benefit of the doubt, having run this game on and off for eight months and 290 pages, but that clearly is not the case. As I do not need this level of negativity in my life, I am going to take a break. See you around the forums.

Again, this. This is the problem: focus. You can go ahead and argue about whatever in the game, but Mal is gone. Without Mal, none of the things you are arguing about exist, at all.... You are arguing about a dead game until and unless Mal comes back and under this type of working condition.... Read what Mal wrote again.

[Gervassen]

I can think of a couple of things you could apologize for, namely refusing to at least give Mal the benefit of the doubt, and getting caught up in "anachronism," when explosives, though not present in the real-world middle ages, have been used fairly often in medieval fiction, and seem plausible to anyone who hasn't decided to take "this is how it happened in the real world" like 50 steps too far.

I never said my objections were on grounds of anachronism. Merely that these specific people had no foreshadowing of this capability. Months of opportunity to use gunpowder at leisure to speed up their siege, then after a forced march during which they left quickly at night without most of their gear, we don't find any supplies of mysterious iron spheres left behind; we raid their rear where they'd be transporting these heavy things in wagons, and find nothing... do you see why this is not anachronism, but merely something that feels spontaneously contrived? Forget history, but at least enemies shouldn't tech up a few centuries over the course of two days. Suddenly, any foe can have any advantage without laying any narrative groundwork.

As for not giving Mal the benefit of the doubt, I think you should read my posts again, since the actual substance is not what people are calling angry and flaming.

They explicitly were said not to have much siege equipment. Gun powder is highly implausible from people who can't even build a mangonel, either, and it's odd to say the least that they wait until now to use it. This latest update is not really... well, I'm not sure what to say...

It still seems like something that is starkly... well... I'm not a fan of this latest update, to be honest to a degree that pains me, because a corrollary to Chekhov's Gun is that, if you have a man shot in the third chapter, then make sure your society has metallurgy and chemistry to make such equipment in the first chapter. A culture that can make an iron sphere can also make better than fur armour... eh..

I respect Mal's vision and don't want to discourage him too much. He has produced an continuous string of good ideas, and that creative process will eventually lead to a few bad ideas sneaking in. My intent is not to destroy his will to create more of those good plot twists, and I've regained a certain amount of curiosity for the next few updates...

If the above merits an apology, then I apologise. Mal will not sweep miraculously into this thread upon your ritual sacrifice of a victim to expiate his divine wrath. You have not summoned forth the volcano god by tossing me down into the caldera. You have bizarrely fixated on getting me to apologise for some reason, as if that really were the solution to something.

[Gervassen]

Truean, that's quite an vicious screed that you wrote, and exactly the thing that locks thread. Inb4, I suppose.