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[GreatWyrmGold]

Although, I love the paean to honesty given the context that everything we're about to gain is predicated on lies. That's in line with the real world, too. Lies get you farther than truth. Truth is what you encourage rivals to tell.

It's the conjunction of two philosophies: "Tell the truth when you can and lie when you can't" and "If you trust someone to be your friend you can probably trust him with the truth."
Lies can get you far, but they'll take you back if/when they're discovered. Not to mention that telling the truth gets you far as far as PR and such goes.

you're correct in that loyalty to his son isn't my only motivation.

How can he be correct, when he hasn't even made that assertion yet? Where did he say we had other motivations? He merely seeks reassurance rather than outright challenging us.
He doesn't even want the real truth. He wants his reasons bolstered by our reasons. People here are giving up our real position for a song. There's no reason to do this, unless we think we're losing him with other angles. The truth is always the last option, of course, but let's keep it back there in the queue where it belongs, not out in front on our sleeves like we're a wide-eyed rube and a gull.
If we ever make it to the King's Court, I give us ten seconds before the lying piranhas there have cleaned our bones.

You're making assumptions a lot here...ironic, given that the first sentence is criticising Nick for just that.
How do you know what he wants? That's the biggest one.

[Gervassen]

"If you trust someone to be your friend you can probably trust him with the truth."

Good point. Let's tell Percival our real reasons, and give Uriel a plausible story for now. Friendship is not on the table just yet. Let's try to convince him this is duty alone first. There is no reason to open with a full and frank disclosure of our dirt.

How do you know what he wants? That's the biggest one.

For one thing, he came to us. That indicates that something is burning in him enough to put him in action and ride two days to our town. He's here for his own reasons, not to ask idle questions and listen to ours, but he doesn't want to stick his neck out first. We give him plausible good-sounding stuff, spiced with knightly honour, remind him of our shared battle service. We're going to be there by his side, same as we were at Torchester.

Another, the wording. It's not accusatory, he wonders rather than asserts, and seeks reassurance that we're willing to stake ourselves out in the open, if he moves. "Are you willing to risk your life for this boy?" is not "Confess everything since nursery school, you rogue, and mind that I have the advantage of you!" as some people seem to have misread.

[GreatWyrmGold]

"If you trust someone to be your friend you can probably trust him with the truth."

Good point. Let's tell Percival our real reasons, and give Uriel a plausible story for now. Friendship is not on the table just yet. Let's try to convince him this is duty alone first. There is no reason to open with a full and frank disclosure of our dirt.

Well, just trusting Uriel with the army is pretty trusting. Why can't we trust him with the truth?

How do you know what he wants? That's the biggest one.

For one thing, he came to us. That indicates that something is burning in him enough to put him in action and ride two days to our town. He's here for his own reasons, not to ask idle questions and listen to ours, but he doesn't want to stick his neck out first. We give him plausible good-sounding stuff, spiced with knightly honour, remind him of our shared battle service. We're going to be there by his side, same as we were at Torchester.

It's also possible that he's trying to recruit us, for his own reasons, but that he doesn't just want his own reasons reflected back. If he does, great, but if not, he's not going to turn down a chance to achieve his goals, is he?

Another, the wording. It's not accusatory, he wonders rather than asserts, and seeks reassurance that we're willing to stake ourselves out in the open, if he moves. "Are you willing to risk your life for this boy?" is not "Confess everything since nursery school, you rogue, and mind that I have the advantage of you!" as some people seem to have misread.

Again, this could as easily be a test of honesty as trying to figure out what our motives are. Do you want to fail this test just because you didn't want to trust the truth to the leader of what will be "our" army?

[Ukrainian Ranger]

I am voting for honesty, I think It's IC for our baronet as I see him

[Gervassen]

I also vote for honesty, but we omit Owen's rivalry. We're honest without filling in that detail. Give me that, guys. You can tell later if necessary.

As for this character and his motivations, well, he's pulled off some real whoppers, and he's in the middle of forging a claim... He values honesty so highly that he uses it sparingly and with great economy.

[Gervassen]

Again, this could as easily be a test of honesty as trying to figure out what our motives are. Do you want to fail this test just because you didn't want to trust the truth to the leader of what will be "our" army?

What a childish thing to ride this far for. If he were interested in honesty like an ignorant country rube without important interests to maintain, he'd be back in curbiston with the lord who honestly is more legitimate. Ain't no honest people in this room. The fact we're here is dishonest, and the fact he's here is that he wishes to hear something other than our petty personal truths.

Basically, when we gave Arthur the line about duty, we committed ourselves to a line that we have to maintain. It's erratic to be telling random strangers our business now, when we saw fit to withold it from a Count.

[Evil Marahadja]

1+ to withholding the truth. We are not even lying, we are just not telling the whole truth.

Besides, most people could probably guess that we will gain something out of it as well. They are not stupid. Just as they aspect certain favours from the bastard if he becomes the count and they supported him. We don't need to state the obvious. Very few people are willing to risk their life and title for altruistic reasons only.

[Gervassen]

I have to admit, though, I was wrong to suggest lying about the Count planning to legitimise this bastard.

Let's recap our response so far.

Bearing in mind that we want to be completely honest about the way that duty and loyalty mean a lot to us, while omitting irrevelant details like shadowy alliances with a criminal underlord in Curbiston called The Rat, a campaign of whispers that is full of slanders and calumnies against our presumptive lord, and our petty rivalry with Sir Owen... let's try to scrape something together than fuses these principles of openness, honesty, and streamlined truthfulness into a single coherent response.

How's this:

"I am a knight, my lord Marshal. Risking my life is merely duty for me. The blood that we spilled on the field of Torchester together ought to convince you that I am found in the front rank when the cause is just and the battle hot."

"I'm not going to hold the late Count's mistakes against his offspring. Arthur deserves a chance to prove himself. However, though I did make amends with the count some time before his death, you're correct in that loyalty to his son isn't my only motivation. To put it bluntly, Owen may well have been responsible for the murder of the last Count, and a man like that is a danger to all his vassals. How can I feel safe when such rumours are afloat of my liege? He who would murder a Count, scorns to do right by his own vassals. Surely, none of us can rest easily if that is true. That is why I must protect Arthur, who has no fault on his soul but being fathered by a Foles in the rightful lands of the Foles."

"Yet I am but a knight, my lord Marshal, not an experienced leader of men. I do not have the means to press his claim myself, and I can give him precious little protection in the long run, without someone greater to take up his claim. If you have come with this intention, I offer up my lands, my men, and yes, my life to your disposal."
 

[Maldevious]

Are the proponents of truth fine with that response? Want to move forward, but haven't seen a clear consensus yet.

[The Alchemist]

Well I was kinda hoping that this wouldn't be necessary for RP sessions, but since there's a disagreement. I agree that we should embellish the truth a little, but not outright lie if we can help it.

Spoiler: Current issue and votes (click to show/hide)

Plan A: Tell the truth as best we can.
Plan B: Don't outright lie, but withhold some details and smudge a few minor ones when convenient.

Votes:

Origami_Psycho: Voted A.
GreatWyrmGold: Voted B.
Gervassen: Voted B.
Nicholas1024: Voted A.
Ukranian Ranger: Voted A.
Evil Marahadja: Voted B.
The Alchemist: Voted B.
Elfeater: Voted A.

Total:
Plan A: 4.
Plan B: 4.

[Elfeater]

To tip the scales, Im all for honesty.

[Gervassen]

Let's just skip over this. It's hilarious that we've framed a man for murder, but we are scandalised at not telling our life story in detail. Whatever we happened to say, it was enough.

Yeah, I guess we can clam up if we really want to deceive and risk that he's judging to see how honest we are.

Are you sure GWG is voting A?

[The Alchemist]

Let's just skip over this. It's hilarious that we've framed a man for murder, but we are scandalised at not telling our life story in detail. Whatever we happened to say, it was enough.

Yeah, I guess we can clam up if we really want to deceive and risk that he's judging to see how honest we are.

Are you sure GWG is voting A?

Noted and changed, with that it's all tied up.

[Gervassen]

Not to say he votes B... but it's not clear that he votes A, either.

My personal view is that, during an RP like this, we should take what we all can agree on, rather than possibly alienating some by taking things that we can't all agree on. I hope that we can agree that mentioning our bravery in shared battles is good, mentioning duty is good, mentioning the murder rumours we've already started is good, calling him to take the lead is good. I don't think we can all agree on exposing our deeper motives unless directly challenged, so for now we can move past that and return to that if necessary.

[The Alchemist]

Not to say he votes B... but it's not clear that he votes A, either.

My personal view is that, during an RP like this, we should take what we all can agree on, rather than possibly alienating some by taking things that we can't all agree on. I hope that we can agree that mentioning our bravery in shared battles is good, mentioning duty is good, mentioning the murder rumours we've already started is good, calling him to take the lead is good. I don't think we can all agree on exposing our deeper motives unless directly challenged, so for now we can move past that and return to that if necessary.

Yeah it's sort of why I didn't want to do a vote for the RP sections I guess we'll just leave it up to Mal on how to proceed. I'll keep the vote up if Mal wants to reference it, but I won't do it for further RP sections and I'll change GWG's vote to undecided. I agree that we should keep our real reasons as more or less guessable, but not openly stated.