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[jaass]

^ We are going have to attack because Owen won't give up his title that easily.

[mcclay]

Now is the time to strike. Mobolize our armies and see if we can get our allies to do so also. We will crush "Count" Owen under our heel.

[jaass]

Not yet, we should wait for the support of other nobles. The last thing we need is to be caught red handed of supporting a rebellion specially a rebellion towards our "liege lord."

[Plato Play-Doh]

If we send them away, we seem noncommittal. Our plan is to attack in the Spring, and that is what we have to do. The more people on our side, the better. My only worry is that perhaps this group is playing both sides, as it were. I'd rather not have double agents in our midst. Keep them under close scrutiny, but agree. Also, send letters to our allies (the Duke and the Knights). Once we hear back from them, unless any have any objections, we strike. Call Arthur back as well, and hope that he's been learning to fight over the Winter. He shouldn't be on the front lines, but he should certainly make an appearance on the battlefield. Oh, and see about getting the Rat to rally the masses once we reach the city. When we get there, I want to see riots already going on.

Sounds good to me.  Except I was under the impression that we weren't going to attack.

I was only opposed to attacking immediately, as Urist suggested. I wanted to wait for the Spring, which is now here. If it can be dealt with without bloodshed, great, but that seems unlikely.

[Theodolus]

A quick letter should be sent out to the Duke informing him that a male heir has been found and that we will be pressing his claims at Curbiston. We then march to the city and begin a siege. With luck the Duke will arrive shortly after with an army to back the heir. If we are extremely lucky Owen won't be suicidal and will realize that he doesn't stand a chance against an overwhelming force and will surrender the title and city without a fight. If not, at least we'll have greater numbers on our side.

[stabbymcstabstab]

We should take in the Marshall I don't remember when Owen was made a actual count, also because the boy is being accepted as the true count by the families personal guard and us he is our leige lord, so we aren't doing nothing tonne looked down on.

[Origami_Psycho]

Arthur should also 'happen upon' the late count's will, declaring Arthur to be Count.

[Plato Play-Doh]

A quick letter should be sent out to the Duke informing him that a male heir has been found and that we will be pressing his claims at Curbiston. We then march to the city and begin a siege. With luck the Duke will arrive shortly after with an army to back the heir. If we are extremely lucky Owen won't be suicidal and will realize that he doesn't stand a chance against an overwhelming force and will surrender the title and city without a fight. If not, at least we'll have greater numbers on our side.

We should also contact both of our knight friends for aid. Have Percival bring Arthur to battle with him as well. We should also meet with the Rat in person before the battle, get him to incite riots, and give him more payment, he deserves it (and we need him loyal). Additionally, we do need to fabricate a will that makes Arthur Count Foles' heir, as has been said. Basically, this month is nothing but war preparations.

[Theodolus]

Arthur should also 'happen upon' the late count's will, declaring Arthur to be Count.

Or the 'official will' could have been brought to us by Uriel Lope...

[Origami_Psycho]

Arthur should also 'happen upon' the late count's will, declaring Arthur to be Count.

Or the 'official will' could have been brought to us by Uriel Lope...

Even better.

[Gervassen]

So, okay, the plans are fine, as is. Here's an alternative to stir things up a bit.

I'd point out that a veteran of the old guard like Uriel can probably bring a lot of people from inside Curbiston with him. There's a lot of attention so far on starting the ball rolling outside the city among other knights and the Duke, and there are suggestions about riots inside Curbiston, but Uriel himself being here suggests the support of the garrison and men-at-arms is also weak. We can debrief him on this matter, and find out how soft the city is right now.

Owen probably hasn't had time to purge their ranks, and if we wanted to, we might be able to boldly move on Curbiston with just Uriel and our mounted dragoons alone. Tomorrow. Uriel can persuade the gate guards to let us through, we're in the city, we garrison the gatehouse and move toward the Keep blaring out with horns and cries of "For the true Count! Down with the murderer! Down with Sir Owen!"

Uriel gets half or more of the city's own guard to aid us, the common folk get their staves and clubs, and behind this meatshield, our own archers are sniping whatever idiot peeks out a battlement inside the keep. Instead of sieging a city, we're down to sieging the keep with much of the garrison behind us rather than across from us. This looks extremely hopeless from Owen's standpoint.

Curbiston falls largely intact with forces mainly from within.

On the other hand, if we view this entirely as a matter of those outside opposing those inside, moving deliberately and slowly to put Curbiston under siege, then we corner the insiders into reluctantly supporting Owen.

Give it a think.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Firstly, I'd like to note that I have also changed my vote a few times when I've been sufficiently convinced, but I concede that it's rare. Suggestion: When I point out something you've "left out," even if you think you've covered it, cover it again. It gets repetitive to repeat such things and addressing all my points means you have a chance of convincing me to change my mind. (It doesn't help matters that my tendency to dissect arguments paragraph-by-paragraph make me feel like I'm doing a thorough job of countering your arguments when the other doesn't seem to be doing the same.)
I'd also like to note that many of the positions I've taken have been because of slight benefits I've seen. Think of it this way: There's not really a reason for me not to type this standing up, but it's more convenient to do so sitting down; hence, given the slight advantage I see there, I do so. However, if someone convinced me that, say, standing up while typing improves blood flow to my brain or something, I would probably type standing up. Similarly, if you can convince me that there is a larger practical benefit to plan B rather than A, I'll probably switch.
Another note, my agreeability depends in part on my mood. If I'm just being stubborn, or if I seem scatterbrained over an argument, or something like that, let me know so I can reflect and decide if the claims are true. Obviously, I can't do this if people don't inform me of such.

But away from procedure and into policy.

-----

First thoughts:
I'm glad we're getting better; a near-cripple would make a less interesting/fun character and a less impressive noble.
I see that some of our assumptions were well-grounded; the rumors are taking nicely.
Legality may be an issue, but I'm glad that there's a nice, "legal" workaround. Shall we see if the Rat knows any forgers?
Alright, and to clarify--the "foreigner" is Owen, right?

-snip-

Sounds good to me.  Except I was under the impression that we weren't going to attack.

Not literally (if we don't have to).

Not yet, we should wait for the support of other nobles. The last thing we need is to be caught red handed of supporting a rebellion specially a rebellion towards our "liege lord."

Agreed. No attacking without provocation. That makes Owen a martyr and us a villain...at best. At worst, we're a criminal, a traitor, evidence that commoners can't be trusted with power, and also dead.

A quick letter should be sent out to the Duke informing him that a male heir has been found

Works for me if it works for others.

and that we will be pressing his claims at Curbiston. We then march to the city and begin a siege. With luck the Duke will arrive shortly after with an army to back the heir. If we are extremely lucky Owen won't be suicidal and will realize that he doesn't stand a chance against an overwhelming force and will surrender the title and city without a fight. If not, at least we'll have greater numbers on our side.

-1, unless of course a higher-ranking noble says we can/should. Otherwise we're basically saying "Hey, Duke, just FYI, here's a guy we say is the Count's heir, now we're going to attack our liegelord so he can take the throne*. Okay thanks bye!"
*Is it still referred to as a throne if it's not a king's seat he'd be taking?

Arthur should also 'happen upon' the late count's will, declaring Arthur to be Count.

I'd rather have someone else come across it. Someone without an obvious motive for making Arthur count, but still close to us. Maybe Percival?

-snip-

We should also contact both of our knight friends for aid.

When we actually go into battle, yes.
Actually, even beforehand, it might not hurt to get them on our side. Let them know what we know about why it would be better for Arthur to be the Count than Owen.

Have Percival bring Arthur to battle with him as well.

To battle? Only if we have to, or there's some requirement that a noble see battle before taking office or something. Too much of a risk of a stray arrow, catapult stone, or assassin finding him, and no real benefit I can see.

We should also meet with the Rat in person before the battle, get him to incite riots, and give him more payment, he deserves it (and we need him loyal).

Not sure about meeting him in person, but aye.

Additionally, we do need to fabricate a will that makes Arthur Count Foles' heir, as has been said.

Not a lot of arguments here, from anyone, but that's because this is really kinda obvious.

Basically, this month is nothing but war preparations.

Not war-war...conflict preparations?

So, okay, the plans are fine, as is. Here's an alternative to stir things up a bit.

And here's my thoughts on them, you long-winded ninja.

I'd point out that a veteran of the old guard like Uriel can probably bring a lot of people from inside Curbiston with him. There's a lot of attention so far on starting the ball rolling outside the city among other knights and the Duke, and there are suggestions about riots inside Curbiston, but Uriel himself being here suggests the support of the garrison and men-at-arms is also weak. We can debrief him on this matter, and find out how soft the city is right now.

Good idea, no complaints. Not sure how "alternative" this is...supplementary? Most people are on-board with accepting their help.

Owen probably hasn't had time to purge their ranks, and if we wanted to, we might be able to boldly move on Curbiston with just Uriel and our mounted dragoons alone. Tomorrow. Uriel can persuade the gate guards to let us through, we're in the city, we garrison the gatehouse and move toward the Keep blaring out with horns and cries of "For the true Count! Down with the murderer! Down with Sir Owen!"

I'd rather not be the rebel. If there is or we can gather enough support for a rebellion amongst the people clamoring for Arthur, we can help it, but let's not be seen as leading the rebellion. Terrible for our image and probably a crime. Say what you will about feudalism, but the king's not fond of traitors to their liegelords...after all, he is the Lord of Lords.

Uriel gets half or more of the city's own guard to aid us, the common folk get their staves and clubs, and behind this meatshield, our own archers are sniping whatever idiot peeks out a battlement inside the keep. Instead of sieging a city, we're down to sieging the keep with much of the garrison behind us rather than across from us. This looks extremely hopeless from Owen's standpoint.
Curbiston falls largely intact with forces mainly from within.

While it's way too early to start worrying about tactics, this sounds like a sound idea.

On the other hand, if we view this entirely as a matter of those outside opposing those inside, moving deliberately and slowly to put Curbiston under siege, then we corner the insiders into reluctantly supporting Owen.

Agreed.

Give it a think.

My main complaints are that I don't support attacking unprovoked and that I had expected more...radical content from the first sentence, not just details.

[Origami_Psycho]

So, okay, the plans are fine, as is. Here's an alternative to stir things up a bit.

I'd point out that a veteran of the old guard like Uriel can probably bring a lot of people from inside Curbiston with him. There's a lot of attention so far on starting the ball rolling outside the city among other knights and the Duke, and there are suggestions about riots inside Curbiston, but Uriel himself being here suggests the support of the garrison and men-at-arms is also weak. We can debrief him on this matter, and find out how soft the city is right now.

Owen probably hasn't had time to purge their ranks, and if we wanted to, we might be able to boldly move on Curbiston with just Uriel and our mounted dragoons alone. Tomorrow. Uriel can persuade the gate guards to let us through, we're in the city, we garrison the gatehouse and move toward the Keep blaring out with horns and cries of "For the true Count! Down with the murderer! Down with Sir Owen!"

Uriel gets half or more of the city's own guard to aid us, the common folk get their staves and clubs, and behind this meatshield, our own archers are sniping whatever idiot peeks out a battlement inside the keep. Instead of sieging a city, we're down to sieging the keep with much of the garrison behind us rather than across from us. This looks extremely hopeless from Owen's standpoint.

Curbiston falls largely intact with forces mainly from within.

On the other hand, if we view this entirely as a matter of those outside opposing those inside, moving deliberately and slowly to put Curbiston under siege, then we corner the insiders into reluctantly supporting Owen.

Give it a think.

That is a pretty good plan, but isn't the dude we just got the captain of the House guard, not the cities guard?

[Jembot]

If we do attack, we need to have a chat with Uriel and get him to tell us everything he knows about Folesden. Troop numbers, fortifications, everything.

[Plato Play-Doh]

So, okay, the plans are fine, as is. Here's an alternative to stir things up a bit.

I'd point out that a veteran of the old guard like Uriel can probably bring a lot of people from inside Curbiston with him. There's a lot of attention so far on starting the ball rolling outside the city among other knights and the Duke, and there are suggestions about riots inside Curbiston, but Uriel himself being here suggests the support of the garrison and men-at-arms is also weak. We can debrief him on this matter, and find out how soft the city is right now.

Owen probably hasn't had time to purge their ranks, and if we wanted to, we might be able to boldly move on Curbiston with just Uriel and our mounted dragoons alone. Tomorrow. Uriel can persuade the gate guards to let us through, we're in the city, we garrison the gatehouse and move toward the Keep blaring out with horns and cries of "For the true Count! Down with the murderer! Down with Sir Owen!"

Uriel gets half or more of the city's own guard to aid us, the common folk get their staves and clubs, and behind this meatshield, our own archers are sniping whatever idiot peeks out a battlement inside the keep. Instead of sieging a city, we're down to sieging the keep with much of the garrison behind us rather than across from us. This looks extremely hopeless from Owen's standpoint.

Curbiston falls largely intact with forces mainly from within.

On the other hand, if we view this entirely as a matter of those outside opposing those inside, moving deliberately and slowly to put Curbiston under siege, then we corner the insiders into reluctantly supporting Owen.

Give it a think.

My only problem is that there's no guarantees of them supporting us, and that we shouldn't be seen as leading the rebellion (even though we kinda are leading it). We need to contact others, I think it can wait a week or two. This is a good idea to implement into our preexisting plans, if possible

To battle? Only if we have to, or there's some requirement that a noble see battle before taking office or something. Too much of a risk of a stray arrow, catapult stone, or assassin finding him, and no real benefit I can see.

He should be seen on the field, amongst his people. Let them know that he is not afraid of getting his hands dirty. Keep him mostly away from the thick of it, though. No front lines for him.

Not sure about meeting him in person, but aye.

My thought there was that just recently people were talking about meeting him in person to get synchronized and whatnot. We never actually did that, so this seems as good a time as any.

Not war-war...conflict preparations?

I find it hard to believe that we will avoid open battle. Thus, I think that battle is what we should be focused on. Any battle preparations we have increase the likelihood of him noticing that he's outmatched and surrendering, anyway.