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Author Topic: Lordship: A Suggestion Game  (Read 329034 times)

Talvara

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Re: Lordship: A Suggestion Game
« Reply #3015 on: April 15, 2013, 09:41:07 am »

We can do without the national disgust :P... that we have our reasons to not like Sir Owen should be enough.
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Gervassen

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Re: Lordship: A Suggestion Game
« Reply #3016 on: April 15, 2013, 10:16:52 am »

Nothing too harsh. At this point in history, before horseless carriages and moving picture boxes, people really didn't see much of their own countrymen outside a ten mile range, and each locality took on strong differences in dialect and customs. This play to shared local bigotry is an excellent way to deflect our true reasons and have a better bargaining position, while staying within the mindset of the people in the medieval era.

(OOC: why do i have a feeling that Garv is going to eventually start this worlds version of the War of the Roses?)

"Peace, impudent and shameless Warwick, peace, Proud setter up and puller down of kings counts."
« Last Edit: April 15, 2013, 02:44:40 pm by Gervassen »
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Origami_Psycho

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Re: Lordship: A Suggestion Game
« Reply #3017 on: April 15, 2013, 02:29:01 pm »

Tell him that we had settled our quarrels with his father before he had passed.  And the proceed to inform him that Owens appears to be less... reasonable.
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Gervassen

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Re: Lordship: A Suggestion Game
« Reply #3018 on: April 15, 2013, 02:49:05 pm »

He doesn't need to know our true status with Owen, which is a thing few people beyond Owen, us, and apparently the Rat now know. We give him his reasons, coloured as our own. I'm holding firm as a general principle of bargaining, that we don't blab our real position.

To expand a little here, we never need to give information when quite plausible bullshit suffices. Our little white lie of omission is wiped away the moment that we declare for the bastard, because if Sir Owen wasn't a hostile rival before, he certainly becomes one then. By fudging the timeline when we made Owen our hostile rival, we simply give the new Count the impression that we really are fighting for his reasons. And appealing to other people's own interests gets you farther than making them understand yours.

The less we appear to need him, the more this seems merely a vague sense of justice and ambition and an impersonal muted scorn for Owen's outsider status on our part, reasons that we could put aside before it's set in motion, the more we get in concessions later on. Just because we need Owen gone is no reason to let everyone else know that we need them more than they need us.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2013, 03:48:19 pm by Gervassen »
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Plato Play-Doh

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Re: Lordship: A Suggestion Game
« Reply #3019 on: April 15, 2013, 03:13:36 pm »

Yes, but I'd still refrain from talking about gaining power. If this kid doesn't like us, we're in the same position we were in with Foles. We want to get him to trust us, and that means that he needs to think that we're doing it for him, not for us. Maybe say that we would be glad to have another person in power that was commonborn, but don't talk about a desire to be rewarded. I like your first paragraph, and the third is fine, but I don't think that we should talk of reward.
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10ebbor10

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Re: Lordship: A Suggestion Game
« Reply #3020 on: April 15, 2013, 03:29:52 pm »

We might want to "mention'' the "rumours' about 'Count' Owen's 'involvement' in the late Count's 'unfortunate' "fall".

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Gervassen

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Re: Lordship: A Suggestion Game
« Reply #3021 on: April 15, 2013, 03:39:11 pm »

My only real reason for including the second paragraph was that he'll expect some glint of opportunism in our play, so by freely confessing the obvious, he won't need further scrutiny.

We can leave that section unsaid, unless he isn't buying the other two, then grudgingly own up to it.

Also, yeah, floating the murder rumor as credulously as possible.
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kaian-a-coel

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Re: Lordship: A Suggestion Game
« Reply #3022 on: April 15, 2013, 04:06:03 pm »

I think we need to tell him the truth. Soon-to-be-Count Owen isn't exactly what we want as a neighbour. He probably knows why. He only is a son-in-law, a true son, bastard or not, have a claim at least as strong.
Let's be honest: we do expect, should this plan succeed, to reap some benefits. But having a friendly liege is already enough reason for us to do this.
Shall Arthur be made Count, we will have opportunities to rise higher. Should Owen be made Count, we will be pushed down. We do not want him to destroy what we built.
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: Lordship: A Suggestion Game
« Reply #3023 on: April 15, 2013, 04:26:26 pm »

"Why would I hold the actions of the father against the son? You are a clean slate, as far as I'm concerned...unlike certain claimants. I believe you are the best choice, and to my knowledge the most rightful one."
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Talvara

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Re: Lordship: A Suggestion Game
« Reply #3024 on: April 15, 2013, 04:30:53 pm »

just why are we so sure hes the right claimant? maybe he should 'sell' himself to us a bit more before we make any commitments. Maybe this should be... like a speeddate? or would that be too dangerous? (seeing as others might catch on to us working with this guy)
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: Lordship: A Suggestion Game
« Reply #3025 on: April 15, 2013, 04:33:13 pm »

He's the best claimant we know of.

Out of two.
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Gervassen

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Re: Lordship: A Suggestion Game
« Reply #3026 on: April 15, 2013, 05:23:54 pm »

Probably overthinking this exchange in absence of an update, but here's a do-over of mine with other suggestions worked in. Get a look at my insertion of the murder insinuations.

"Your father made his mistakes in life, that's true, but he's dead now. God rest him. I spoke to him at the Flower Fair just last May, Arthur, and after a long discussion with him not far from this very spot, I truly felt that he was ready to change his ways, but we'll never know what he could have done with that second chance. We'll never know what errors he was ready to openly and publicly admit."  Toss Arthur a meaningful glance. "He died suddenly and strangely, and before the week was out, your sister was unpacked in his old quarters with anticipatory haste. And that's where his life's tale has to end."

"It's true. He had flaws that he'll never redeem this side of Judgment Day now, but let's not dwell on the flaws of the dead. You know those flaws much better than I could recite to you, and that's an encouraging sign that they won't be repeated. I won't begrudge you a game chance to correct his errors as the new Count. I want to help you, because it's the right thing to do, Arthur. I still care about that consideration, you know. What is right still means something to me. You are the rightful heir, and this is your patrimony at stake. If we don't press it now, we lose the moment."

"That loss would be a shame, for I think we share a rather unique perspective, you and I. We both know how it is to be viewed as common. I think that knowledge will assist your rule and give you the drive to prove them all wrong in the same way that it has done me. Thus for the right of the law, and for the good of the land and its people, I ask to advance your claim as the true Count Foles of Folesden."


I think we need to tell him the truth. Soon-to-be-Count Owen isn't exactly what we want as a neighbour. He probably knows why.

He's a fifteen year old bastard, not a courtier, and even they probably don't know the depth of the rivalry. Owen is from a different county.

Will Arthur still be grateful if we were honest? Yeah, but not as much as to a supporter selflessly in his cause who doesn't equally need him on a practical level. This is simple basics of bargaining. Let him find out our other motives himself if he truly cares. Even their later discovery won't change much. Just a little "aha!" and a slight shrug by the time he finds out. We're under no obligation to disclose everything. Every man has his secret motivations.

Just why are we so sure hes the right claimant?

How do we know he's the right claimant? Because he's our claimant, and because we have the means to persuade others that he's the right claimant. Notice how the whore is useless dead weight? That's because the truth doesn't matter at this level of politics. Although if the money payments are real, he clearly has a valid claim.



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Theodolus

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Re: Lordship: A Suggestion Game
« Reply #3027 on: April 15, 2013, 05:29:26 pm »

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Maldevious

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Re: Lordship: A Suggestion Game
« Reply #3028 on: April 15, 2013, 08:52:37 pm »

Sorry for delays. Work again. Slammed.
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: Lordship: A Suggestion Game
« Reply #3029 on: April 15, 2013, 08:55:44 pm »

I do not blame you or hold this against you.
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