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[kahn1234]

.....good point about most effective skirmishers being mounted. I'm still for them though, so we should accelerate our horse buying and breeding program and start creating light cavalry. Light cavalry backed by archers is definitely gonna be devastating if used properly(I don't mean mounted archers since the bows they use would not last all that long in this climate, as has been pointed out and from my own knowledge)

I also agree having the able-bodied men spend an hour or two a day learning a simple pole weapon for emergency defense is a good idea(and that they'll only be for defense and our levy remains the same). However, here's an idea for a weapon for them to learn:Scythes(specifically war scythes). Most of the populace are farmers, so they are already familiar with a scythe, so all they really need to learn is standing in a line and formation fighting

The problem with having an archer/mounted skirmisher only standing army is, it cannot defend. To defend you need strong melee troops in good armour. What would be the point in winning if we cant defend what we have taken?

and scythes are very ineffective military weapons. the Billhook is an awesome weapon. Stick with billhooks. Maybe train them as spearmen too and drill them to make them disciplined. Also, trained them to effectively and quickly cut, sharpen and place wooden stakes in the ground would be good as well.

How about naginatas?
(and "it's japanese" is not a valid counter-argument, as far as we know, there is no such thing in this universe.)

It doesn't exist (in this universe) is a pretty good argument though.

Let's use Halberd's. It's the ultimate weapon. (I'm serious, it can be used as a spear, and axe, a axe on a long pole, and as a standard pole). Also, it has a build in hook to dismount riders.

Edit: Also, the Swiss use it. (And still do, to guard the Vatican)

You know that is basically what a Billhook is? and, as its a farming tool, it is common as all hell and our troops are already accustomed to its weight and general use.


Also, it would seem that if we tried to attract intellectuals, scholars and explorers with ideas it would impress Marna.

That isn't true, I have been pushing for towers and a stronghold for a while. That way we could hold out and fire arrows at them all day. And Who said we were only going to be archers/mounted skirmishers? We were just training guys in riding. I say we drop some halberdiers from the program and train them in phalanx and provide tower shields. Thus we begin the wall tactics. And if everything goes well we will have mounted archers that can double as swordsmen.

Multipurpose troops aren't as effective as specialized troops. and Halberds are two handed weapons, as are pikes and other pole arms such as them (although i'd argue that Halberds are more effective than pikes and other similar pole arms). And Phalanx, is YET AGAIN an ancient formation. If you mean Square formation, 'spear' wall and general drilling, formations and discipline, then yes. We need a good strong well armoured melee base. Halberdiers can be that strong core.

And are you going to build stronghold on every inch of land we would take in an offensive? No, you wouldn't. We need an army that can defend just as well as it can attack on a battlefield without the help of time consuming fortifications. Yours does not do that. Melee is almost ignored.

Just as a note, the reason why medieval cities were so disorganised is not because they didn't know how to plan a city. (The romans knew how to do it). But because they'd around a defensive fortification, in a more organic way. Another problem was that the planning of roads was often not organised by the local governement, but by various noble families. Considering we don't have these problems, there's no reason why we can't be structural.

Also, it's not like there weren't any decently organised cities. Several smaller, new cities constructed in peacefull times follow a nice concentric streetplan.

Snip

The shieldwall can't hold itself against a cavalery charge. Besides, in order to get a decent shieldwall you'd need at least 50% of the army to be shieldbearers. That'll tremendously weaken the system.

In effect,   while the phanlax might be better against archery, it'll fail against both infantery and cavalery. There's a reason it died out a long time before.

A phalanx using spear armed troops would be effective against cavalry. It wouldn't work with halberdiers as they use two handed weapons and our halberdiers would be vulnerable to archers due to the lack of shields therefore they need at least decent metal armour that covers at the very least their head, neck, torso, arms and thighs. And the in-flexible phalanx formation would be a sitting duck in medieval warfare.

[kahn1234]

<snip>

[Maldevious]

So... I don't see a whole lot of suggestions for December... Gervassen had a few, but besides that, it's mostly been discussion about troop types. Anything else for the next month?

[kahn1234]

I think we should not extensively plan our city layout. Maybe say that all buildings must be at least half brick and not have too much of an overhang of the upper floors over the ground floor and have rows of houses (that dont have to be in a straight line) separated from other rows of houses by a road, to prevent the spread of fire.

Also, make sure there are ample city watch houses (aka police) and fire houses (fire fighters) to deal with any internal problems.

Maybe try to attract the attention of some apothecaries and healers to help keep our people (as well as ourselves and Marna and any kids we have) healthy. We dont want our people or wife dying of disease.

Thirdly, the designation of graveyards and landfill sites might be a good idea. It is a very bad idea to use the River as a waste disposal site (especially if our people bathe in it and we dont have a public bath house as an alternative yet).

also, work on our lancer abilities.

keep in contact with Marna by letter.

Roughly plan our city and plan what industry we want to expand (furniture, tailor industries as well as more crops/crop diversity and the beginning of a larger scale meat and dairy industry).

I would have said have a decent christmas celebration, but we dont have any money.

[tryrar]

Guys guys guys, enough already with troop compositions, we have a decent militia atm we don't need changes. This argument is starting to get ridiculous

[Fishybang]

Guys guys guys, enough already with troop compositions, we have a decent militia atm we don't need changes. This argument is starting to get ridiculous

Im going to go with this, you guys are thinking way to big for right now.

[Gotdamnmiracle]

Guys guys guys, enough already with troop compositions, we have a decent militia atm we don't need changes. This argument is starting to get ridiculous

Im going to go with this, you guys are thinking way to big for right now.

I agree. Alright. Let's start out looking for a horse whisperer and also continue on public works. Hmm. Are aqueducts ridiculous or could we start on a general well or sewage system (I realize we have discussed this before but Bringing it from the river into the city is one less step to removing waste.) While searching also keep a lookout for an apothacary or person of medical science(?). We should look for all of this in the city of that guy we haven't really met. I apologize I don't know his name. It would be good to groom more relations.

[10ebbor10]

Well considering our town is lying right next to the river, I'm pretty sure an aquaduct is non needed. (Also, it would need to be very big and tap upstream, as water only flows downwards).

A well could be dug easily I suppose. Doesn't need to be very deep, as the water table 'll be quite high.

[tryrar]

So with that out of the way, we have:


1)Get to know our rangers and appoint one of them the captain

2)Find a proper trainer for our horses

3)hold a small winter festival/Christmas celebration(with maybe inviting our friends to a small dinner at our manor)

4)See if we can find an apothecary/healer for our town

5)Designate graveyard space and maybe a trash pile as well

6)As a bonus, see if we can be the patron of a sculptor/stonecrafter. We have all this great granite for statuary, why not use it? Plus, it will go a long way to show are town as a center for the arts and learning(which is what I think we're going for, right?)

[Urist McDwarfFortress]

Sculptors are probably quite expensive (and we just basically emptied our treasury), unless you just hand one of our peasants a chisel and tell him to make a person out of a rock. Which would be funny, but the end product probably wouldn't be something we'd want to display in our manor!

I say we go out hunting, get the militia archers to go hunting as well. It trains their stealth, tracking, and shooting skill. Plus it supplements our food supply with meat!

[Gotdamnmiracle]

Sculptors are probably quite expensive (and we just basically emptied our treasury), unless you just hand one of our peasants a chisel and tell him to make a person out of a rock. Which would be funny, but the end product probably wouldn't be something we'd want to display in our manor!

I say we go out hunting, get the militia archers to go hunting as well. It trains their stealth, tracking, and shooting skill. Plus it supplements our food supply with meat!

Well we do need to improve our forestry... And it may reveal something as of yet unknown in our forests (more brigands setting up shop). I agree. Appoint wood to take the rangers out both learning from them and teaching them, on a hunting/scouting patrol. Actually it is probably a good idea to make them do that often as it has training value as well as it makes sure we don't have any unwanted developments going on out there.

[JpRagavan]

Hi

Ummm... Is it too late to join ??

[LordSlowpoke]

unless you just hand one of our peasants a chisel and tell him to make a person out of a rock.

let's DO THIS

[GreatWyrmGold]

Conversely, no matter the quality of those things, no one will move in without housing. Having people commission their own houses isn't only a bad idea from a planning perspective--it's impossible for all but the wealthiest of individuals.
Oh, and we're also proposing good housing. Despite what you are implying you believe, people care about good housing.

Housing is easy enough for hard-working burghers to build themselves.

Counter-evidence: Even with a subsidy, good houses are out of reach for most peasants.

I really don't want to talk about this, or snide mentions of the failed economic policy known as Keynesianism, or anything else savoring of modern politics.

Fair enough, but the Keynesian economics was just an amusing parallel. And it hasn't failed significantly worse than any other single policy followed to its "logical" conclusion.

The thing is, we can go through most of the year with an empty treasury. That may change, but for now I prefer an empty treasury and things rolling in as opposed to rolling in gold and things staying empty.

Agreed.

If part of our discussion offends you you are free to ignore it, no one is forcing you to participate in that part of the debate, but don't try to stop others from discussing a possibility they think is valid.

When a story about a medieval country is in danger of slipping into modern themes, we have a right to be a little concerned. Creating a proletarian utopia would be a real immersion-breaker for me in this time setting.

That's your opinion; you're allowed to it and I won't try to change it.

Helping the lower classes a little, yes, but we're in danger of going too far. Much too far. And there are a number of predictable unintended consequences to giving people free housing.

Free? Who said it would be free?
You know what happens when you assume something, right?

Hi
Ummm... Is it too late to join ??

Suggestion game, go nuts.

I agree, we're focusing too much on military.

Oh, and on medieval city planning: A major reason for sprawling, unplanned cities is a lack of centralized planning over the period of growth. Whether due to having multiple, weak, or no planners, some cities just can't get designed. We aren't in that circumstance; Sir Stone is (as the lord of this land) a strong central authority if he chooses to be, and the only probable reason for him to not be overseeing at least the general design of the city is if he's dead. Thus, designing at least the general form of expansion isn't impossible. (It also helps that we're not exactly planning to go from 168 people to 10,000 by the end of next year--slow growth is easier to plan.)

[kahn1234]

Another Idea: Forest preservation. As in, have a few people tend to and care for the forests so that we dont have to worry about chopping down all our wood (i cant remember if we did this before). They can plant new trees as we cut down others.

Also, i think some loose planning such as what i mentioned earlier about having rows of houses (dont have to be straight rows) with a road separating them from the next row with ample fire stations and city watch stations is a good start for a small town/fledgling city. Keeps us fairly organised and will help when having to fight crime/fire/disease. Would also be easier to quarantine diseased sections as well.