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[GreatWyrmGold]

To me Semimegabeasts shouldn't be numberous enough to be able to form entire civs with just themselves.

Although I can see bands of semimegabeasts and other powerful critters...say, a dragon, a couple minotaurs, a giant, and some ogres...that would be neat.

I can't. I could see semi/megabeasts of the same race forming groups, but not a bunch of bloodthirsty monsters with next to nothing in common.

What do you mean, bloodthirsty monsters with next to nothing in common?
At their worst, they're like animals; animals can easily get along with each other and even exist in symbiosis.
At their best, they're creatures as or more intelligent than humans; obviously, intelligent creatures can get along with each other.
In the middle, they're kinda dumb, making them easy to control, but smart enough to recognize the value of working together.
As for nothing in common? They're all big, strong creatures who are persecuted by the smaller, more numerous races. Real-world groups have gotten together for less.

[Neonivek]

I really don't think Lumping Megabeasts and Semimegabeasts together is the way to do it.

If they do work together it is because they match up, but it shouldn't be included in the code.

Giants team up with other giants if they feel they need to, but they have nothing in common with a Minotaur.

[GreatWyrmGold]

I really don't think Lumping Megabeasts and Semimegabeasts together is the way to do it.
If they do work together it is because they match up, but it shouldn't be included in the code.

...Where did I imply that the division between mega- and semimegabeasts would be eliminated?

Giants team up with other giants if they feel they need to, but they have nothing in common with a Minotaur.

This is wrong. Giants and minotaurs have plenty in common. They're big, strong, and probably hunted by adventurers. That's enough to open the door to a partnership.

[Neonivek]

Big and Strong is an attribute.

Giants and Minotaurs do not share the same goals or personality. For one Giants are stupid and Minotaurs clearly are not.

Also I meant dividing the Megabeasts with other megabeasts.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Big and Strong is an attribute.

Giants and Minotaurs do not share the same goals or personality. For one Giants are stupid and Minotaurs clearly are not.

You act like the difference in intelligence means that the two groups can't interact. Counter-example: Scientists and politicians. Or, really, the general populace and either group. Don't get me started on how meaningless personality differences are in people working together when death is on the line...
And they don't have the same goals? Why do you say that? Neither wants to die, both want an easier life. Let the minotaur be the brains and the giant be the brawn.

Also I meant dividing the Megabeasts with other megabeasts.

...??

[Manveru Taurënér]

Big and Strong is an attribute.

Giants and Minotaurs do not share the same goals or personality. For one Giants are stupid and Minotaurs clearly are not.

You act like the difference in intelligence means that the two groups can't interact. Counter-example: Scientists and politicians. Or, really, the general populace and either group. Don't get me started on how meaningless personality differences are in people working together when death is on the line...
And they don't have the same goals? Why do you say that? Neither wants to die, both want an easier life. Let the minotaur be the brains and the giant be the brawn.

Also I meant dividing the Megabeasts with other megabeasts.

...??

Woah woah woah, since when do politicians not completely ignore science in favor of whatever gives them the the most votes? o.O

[Carp McDwarfEater]

A Roc just wants to fly down and prey upon the nearby city's livestock, return to its nest, and lay eggs. A minotaur wants to build a huge labyrinth and lure adventurers in with the promise of loot and treasure so that he can have something to kill and torture. I cannot see the two working together at all. What would you do if a man with a beak instead of a mouth and feathers sprouting out of his skin walked up to your door and asked if you wanted to be in a business partnership?

I know I'd say no, because I don't necessarily want to start a business, I don't know him well or trust him, and he doesn't even look anything like me.

[Bloax]

You're talking as if the idea is that every single semi/megabeast has to cooperate. Rocs may be giant birds, but dragons shouldn't have any reason not to be able to speak and form alliances with the different semi/megabeasts. And the aforementioned minotaur/giant alliance possibility.

It all boils down to numbers on whether or not something forms alliances or not, and perhaps even a "ally potential" setting to adjust bias certain creatures positively or negatively in favor of a chance to make an alliance between the two.

Which would mean that minotaurs could have a bias towards giants, and giants a bias towards minotaurs and dragons (brainy things), for an example.
And if questions arise for why giant fire-breathing lizards should be brainy, then I'd say that there's no reason they shouldn't. They're dragons, creatures of fantasies, after all.

[Neonivek]

The larger issues with them teaming up together is that they are solitary creatures.

Teaming up is something inherantly stressful for them.

[Bloax]

We're talking about made up creatures, who says they will be against everything not themselves once they do get the brains to have the potential to team up?

[Neonivek]

We're talking about made up creatures, who says they will be against everything not themselves once they do get the brains to have the potential to team up?

We give them a personality that fits their lifestyle

Most Semimegabeasts are quite solitary or pair at best.

Thus whenever it checks to see if a Giant will team up with a Minotaur it should check the Giant and notice that it is a solitary (or pair) creature and apply that to the chances this will actually go off and how long it will last.

Pack behavior is very large advantage that the (semi)megabeasts do not have that humans, elves, dwarves, and goblins do.

[Carp McDwarfEater]

You're talking as if the idea is that every single semi/megabeast has to cooperate. Rocs may be giant birds, but dragons shouldn't have any reason not to be able to speak and form alliances with the different semi/megabeasts. And the aforementioned minotaur/giant alliance possibility.

It all boils down to numbers on whether or not something forms alliances or not, and perhaps even a "ally potential" setting to adjust bias certain creatures positively or negatively in favor of a chance to make an alliance between the two.

Which would mean that minotaurs could have a bias towards giants, and giants a bias towards minotaurs and dragons (brainy things), for an example.

And if questions arise for why giant fire-breathing lizards should be brainy, then I'd say that there's no reason they shouldn't. They're dragons, creatures of fantasies, after all.

How did I even imply that I thought this suggestion was to make all megabeasts team up?

The Roc and Minotaur was only one example. The same would apply to a hydra, who just lives in a swamp killing anythin that treads within its domain and an ettin, who likes to occasionally visit villages to steal goats and have fun killing little things.

Why would a minotaur who has been in its labyrinth for years and been fine want to take in a giant for protection, and what kind of giant would like to be bossed around by a little cow-man that hides in a maze?

And as in for your claim that dragons are/should be smart, as of now they're jusy fire-breathing beasts. I looked in the raws and they have no tags indicating they are intelligent and don't speak. Seeing as you can train cave dragons as war animals, (I may be wrong on that) I think they should just stay as wild, fire-breathing dinosaurs. The clowns already take the role of fiery, flying monsters with intelligence.

[Hughgee]

One of my ideas is to have the more intelligent of the Semi-Megabeast races such as the minotaur or the cyclops to have a mercurial nature. This could see them join bandit groups to help out in battle for their own ends, such as getting fed the kills that the bandits make. Also the bandits could receive other benefits from hosting a Semi', such as improved armour and weapons if a cyclops creates a forge in their camp or such like.

P.S. I know this post might be a bit off line from the conversation but I wanted to put it forwards for the general topic.

[Carp McDwarfEater]

I suppose that could work for some of the semis, but it shouldn't be that common.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Big and Strong is an attribute.

Giants and Minotaurs do not share the same goals or personality. For one Giants are stupid and Minotaurs clearly are not.

You act like the difference in intelligence means that the two groups can't interact. Counter-example: Scientists and politicians. Or, really, the general populace and either group. Don't get me started on how meaningless personality differences are in people working together when death is on the line...
And they don't have the same goals? Why do you say that? Neither wants to die, both want an easier life. Let the minotaur be the brains and the giant be the brawn.

Also I meant dividing the Megabeasts with other megabeasts.

...??

Woah woah woah, since when do politicians not completely ignore science in favor of whatever gives them the the most votes? o.O

It's a bit indirect. Scientists make new toys, perhaps paid by the government, which may be used to improve military capabilities, which help the politicians out.

A Roc just wants to fly down and prey upon the nearby city's livestock, return to its nest, and lay eggs. A minotaur wants to build a huge labyrinth and lure adventurers in with the promise of loot and treasure so that he can have something to kill and torture. I cannot see the two working together at all. What would you do if a man with a beak instead of a mouth and feathers sprouting out of his skin walked up to your door and asked if you wanted to be in a business partnership?
I know I'd say no, because I don't necessarily want to start a business, I don't know him well or trust him, and he doesn't even look anything like me.

First off, when did rocs come into this conversation? I, at least, was talking about intelligent creatures only. Animals need not apply.
Second off, how can you assume all minotaurs are like that? Maybe some just like living in labyrinths because the adventurers who come to his front door to murder him and take his stuff are impeded by it more than he is.
Third off, minotaurs are often persecuted by the smaller races and therefore would have to be complete morons to forbid anyone from working with them for little to no reason.
Fourth off, if this birdman gave me a good deal and wasn't known to be untrustworthy, why not? This applies double when I'm being attacked by people with sharp metal implements on a regular basis and the agreement is about mutual protection and such, especially if there isn't anyone else I can turn to. Beggars can't be choosers.

The larger issues with them teaming up together is that they are solitary creatures.

Teaming up is something inherantly stressful for them.

You're making up assumptions again. These are creatures that could well be as intelligent as humans, who have no inherent problems working in groups anywhere from one to 1,000,000,000. (Problems do often arise in larger societies, but these are more due to organization or the individuals at the top than any inherent flaw in human psychology.) Why couldn't these, equally-intelligent creatures also work in small bands when necessity arose?
Yes, they're solitary now, but it's still Alpha--the features haven't even been finished yet.

I suppose that could work for some of the semis, but it shouldn't be that common.

No one's saying it would be. Just, "it should be possible, and should occur when the semi/megabeast realizes it's in its interest." Although, come to think of it, that should be pretty common for the cleverer beasts...