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Toady should start it now and include some of the beasts in the next (major) update!

3 (6.8%)

It sounds like something that should be done soon.

5 (11.4%)

Toady should probably do something like this eventually, but it's not important.

14 (31.8%)

Only if Toady needs the donations.

7 (15.9%)

No, this is a bad idea.

15 (34.1%)

Total Members Voted: 44

[GreatWyrmGold]

I suggest that at some point in the future, Toady run a sponsorship drive similar to the Animal Sponsorship Drive he had a little while ago, but rather than requesting real-life animals to add, we suggest mythical creatures to add.

Why?
1. More donations are always nice.
2. It encourages the development of new features that make DF interesting.
3. Speaking of interesting, the one problem with the sponsorship animals is that they're all repetitive. There's a dozen or more kinds of birds which fly around pretty much the same, a bunch of new vermin which act the same as previous vermin, etc. Mythical creatures would differ from both each other and normal animals enough to keep wild beast interesting.

Thoughts? Refinements? Etc?

[dwarfhoplite]

I can't see how this would be different from the useless animal stuff. How would mythical creatures differ from each other except by their names?

[Adrian]

Unlike regular animals, mythical creatures have the potential to be game-breaking, so there should be rules in place to prevent severe unbalancing of gameplay.

Also, creatures like the Wendigo, a supernatural cannibal, don't reproduce. They are instead created when a person engages in canibalism, and seeing as how elves aren't exactly opposed to those things the world might become flooded by Wendigo'd elves.
Other, like the Ahuizotl, require completely different behavioral logic. Ahuizotl's modus operandi was to cry like a human child and drown anyone who came to investigate, eating their nails, eyes, and teeth, but leaving the body otherwise intact.

The Animal Sponsorship Drive was a success because regular animals don't require different behavior and are generally a copy-paste from a different species with some small changes. Mythical creatures are mostly unique and have vastly different behavior and origins in every case.

Also, for this topic Wikipedia's List of legendary creatures might be an interesting read.

[CaptainLambcake]

I'd love to see a creature that pretended to be a dwarven child, and would pull dwarves in.

[dwarfhoplite]

Arent FBs and Titans and such already mythical creatures?

[GreatWyrmGold]

I can't see how this would be different from the useless animal stuff. How would mythical creatures differ from each other except by their names?

90% of mythical creatures have some magical ability that is more than "2 claws, bite" or whatever. Medusae, cockatrices, and basilisks turn people to stone or kill them with a glance. Dragons breathe fire, use magic, or whatever, depending on the dragon. Genies grant wishes. Adding mythical creatures with unusual abilities makes them more than renamed wolves or whatever.

Unlike regular animals, mythical creatures have the potential to be game-breaking, so there should be rules in place to prevent severe unbalancing of gameplay.

I'm not sure how wild animals with special abilities would unbalance gameplay. I'll probably agree with you, but please elaborate.

Also, creatures like the Wendigo, a supernatural cannibal, don't reproduce. They are instead created when a person engages in canibalism, and seeing as how elves aren't exactly opposed to those things the world might become flooded by Wendigo'd elves.

Assuming that wendigoes work like that in DF. And that wendigoism affects elves.

Other, like the Ahuizotl, require completely different behavioral logic. Ahuizotl's modus operandi was to cry like a human child and drown anyone who came to investigate, eating their nails, eyes, and teeth, but leaving the body otherwise intact.

And how is this a bad thing? Okay, yeah, it requires work, but so did bees and turtles.

The Animal Sponsorship Drive was a success because regular animals don't require different behavior and are generally a copy-paste from a different species with some small changes. Mythical creatures are mostly unique and have vastly different behavior and origins in every case.

See above. Besides, a lot of mythical creatures could work a lot like each other or wild animals, especially with a little artistic license.

Also, for this topic Wikipedia's List of legendary creatures might be an interesting read.

Probably, yes.

Arent FBs and Titans and such already mythical creatures?

Not really. They're creatures that don't exist IRL and have a couple of notable abilities, but most of them are ones which normal animals can have and FBs/titans aren't really based on myths or legends. This would be for things like basilisks, gorgons, etc.

[Adrian]

I'm not sure how wild animals with special abilities would unbalance gameplay. I'll probably agree with you, but please elaborate.

Of course not all of them would unbalance the game, but some of them can.
Consider for instance the medusae and basilisks you mentioned. The moment your adventurer makes eye contact it's game over, next adventurer. And any fortress they visit would be completely powerless to stop them.
What i'm saying is that some legendary creatures just have abilities or origins that would completely ruin the game.

Assuming that wendigoes work like that in DF. And that wendigoism affects elves.

If Wendigoes wouldn't work like that they wouldn't be Wendigoes. And if elves are immune to wendigoism, who's to say kobolds, humans or dwarves aren't?

And how is this a bad thing? Okay, yeah, it requires work, but so did bees and turtles.

It would require a rewrite of the animal brain to account for different hunting tactics, including stalking, preying and, in Ahuizotl's case, luring them towards water. And i'm sure a brain upgrade like that is already planned for some time in the future, but it shouldn't be moved to next week just because someone wants to see an Ahuizotl lure people to a pond and drown them.

Besides, a lot of mythical creatures could work a lot like each other or wild animals, especially with a little artistic license.

If you apply an "artistic license" to legendary creatures they wouldn't be the creatures from the legends anymore. A Gorgon wouldn't be a Gorgon if it couldn't petrify people and a Wendigo wouldn't be a Wendigo if it didn't have it's origin in cannibalism. They would just be unusual night trolls.

[Cool Guy]

It would require a rewrite of the animal brain to account for different hunting tactics, including stalking, preying and, in Ahuizotl's case, luring them towards water. And i'm sure a brain upgrade like that is already planned for some time in the future, but it shouldn't be moved to next week just because someone wants to see an Ahuizotl lure people to a pond and drown them.

There are already creatures that sit and wait for dwarves to pass before grabbing them and then strangling them. I can't remember the name but to add a Ahuizotl into the game he'd just have to write it so that dwarves have slight inclination to go near them.

[Scoops Novel]

A good idea, but I'd like toady to get a wider range of cool abilities for random creations rather then just creatures, though i too would appreciate seeing the DF twist on them. This should wait until semi and megabeasts actually have a brain to start with, otherwise it rather undoes their legend.

[Cool Guy]

Here we go. This is what I was talking about, it's actually even closer than I thought, you could probably just rename it and call it good.

A humanoid monster found lurking far underground. It feigns death, usually near water, until a victim passes by. It then uses its long arms to drag its prey into the water to drown or strangle them.
Reachers are annoying creatures that appear alone and will hunt and pursue your dwarves. They are evil humanoids with grey skin and black eyes, and do not appear to be intelligent. As all evil creatures, they cannot be tamed by dwarves.
They are slightly larger than dwarves, but any armed and armored dwarf should be able to kill them.

Right here the Reacher:
http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Reacher

EDIT: They don't seem to be functioning right now so nevermind.

[Wolfy]

If Wendigoes wouldn't work like that they wouldn't be Wendigoes. And if elves are immune to wendigoism, who's to say kobolds, humans or dwa

now your just trying to make excuses, Dwarf fortress alredy has part's that don't work the way the lore says

you have to drink vampire blood to become a vampire?
Wereworlfs regain all limbs?
were Enter WHAT EVER ANIMAL HERE?
As for who is to say who is and who is not? who ever makes the story I.E toady

It's called creative license, you CAN make a world with a wendigoe dose something diffident, they are made up,. its your world you can do what you want

many games show vampires as if they bite you you become a vampire? dose that mean the vampires in DF are not vampires?

You can make a windigo in this world do something like its a devise that has a CHANCE of hipping to some races, or it could become a were curse instead, set by Gods (thats ALSO one of the REAL lore for windigos, there are thousands of story's that all chnage what each creature dose, nothing says which one makes it a vampire, or a dragon or a windigo, you can make your own up
Vampires as an exsample, some have them as blood sucking monsters that look like bats 24\7, if they dont look like that it cant be a vampire?
or what about the chinese one where they steal chi instead of blood? must they do that to?
what about how they cant cross water? can turn to vapor? can transform in to MANY things, cant transform, weak to iorn, garlic, sunlight, moon light makes them stronger, they have no control, they have full control?


Which one is the "real vampire" that makers it a vampire and not something else?

[GreatWyrmGold]

I'm not sure how wild animals with special abilities would unbalance gameplay. I'll probably agree with you, but please elaborate.

Of course not all of them would unbalance the game, but some of them can.
Consider for instance the medusae and basilisks you mentioned. The moment your adventurer makes eye contact it's game over, next adventurer. And any fortress they visit would be completely powerless to stop them.
What i'm saying is that some legendary creatures just have abilities or origins that would completely ruin the game.

Notice two things about Medusa and the basilisks and such.
1. They're pretty much universally rare.
2. There are ways around them, like peripheral vision, mirrors, closing your eyes/blindfolding yourself when you approach where the gorgons live...

Assuming that wendigoes work like that in DF. And that wendigoism affects elves.

If Wendigoes wouldn't work like that they wouldn't be Wendigoes. And if elves are immune to wendigoism, who's to say kobolds, humans or dwarves aren't?

Well, first off: If elves aren't snobbishly superior PETA/hippies to the max, are they elves? They sure can be. DF's elves are different, why not its wendigoes? In addition, other games have wendigoes which aren't created by cannibalism (D&D and Shadowrun come to mind), so do they also not have wendigoes?
Finally, just make an explanation and apply its effects across the board. For instance, elves and goblins might be filled with natural spirits already, which renders them immune to wendigoism and certain other curses.

And how is this a bad thing? Okay, yeah, it requires work, but so did bees and turtles.

It would require a rewrite of the animal brain to account for different hunting tactics, including stalking, preying and, in Ahuizotl's case, luring them towards water. And i'm sure a brain upgrade like that is already planned for some time in the future, but it shouldn't be moved to next week just because someone wants to see an Ahuizotl lure people to a pond and drown them.

I personally don't think that it should be, quote, "moved to next week." However, it will be included eventually. As I don't see any chance of such a drive being done "next week" and put on the top priority, all I can see that doing is making sure that AI improvements of various kinds happen slightly sooner.

Besides, a lot of mythical creatures could work a lot like each other or wild animals, especially with a little artistic license.

If you apply an "artistic license" to legendary creatures they wouldn't be the creatures from the legends anymore. A Gorgon wouldn't be a Gorgon if it couldn't petrify people and a Wendigo wouldn't be a Wendigo if it didn't have it's origin in cannibalism. They would just be unusual night trolls.

Well, you can argue the same about everything. Elves are cannibals? They're just tall gnomes. Dragons don't fly? They're just weird titans. Apes can't use crude tools? They're just semi-erect deer.

A good idea, but I'd like toady to get a wider range of cool abilities for random creations rather then just creatures, though i too would appreciate seeing the DF twist on them. This should wait until semi and megabeasts actually have a brain to start with, otherwise it rather undoes their legend.

Agreed. And, as mentioned in the OP, a benefit of this is that development would be stimulated in the area of creature abilities.

[Neonivek]

I said this before and I'll say it again.

Dwarf Fortress is not a game of balance. It is a game of sense so to speak.

If Medusa turns anyone who gazes at them into stone they are only broken if the game doesn't include the logical ways one would face them.

So very powerful and nearly unstoppable creatures and pathetically weak and useless creatures are not the issue. It is only Dwarf fortress' ability to recognise this that is an issue.

For example with Titans their issue is when they generate pathetically weak creatures and outright immortal ones. Not because of balance but because neither of these make sense within the context of the game.

[Wolfy]

just a bit of an idea,  Medusa there are some legends where its
stare can "turn" to stone, why not have that just as a chance during a fight with it?
or we could take the easy way and have where its blood dose that

ir it could be like dragons breath.
"stare" which needs to charge, dose it make sense? not so much maybe but neither dose breaking someone neck, arm, leg and them still fighting 

[Neonivek]

Remember that a Medusa may not want to siege a fortress and an Adventurer would likely have prior warning.

The Medusa tends to be a rather solitary creature. Sort of a different kind of Semi-megabeast.