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[Scoops Novel]

Oh come on. Where else could this conversation go but to discuss elven magic? Otherwise it boils down to +1'ing your post, or (if you considered it ontopic enough) arguing about how they do it and how long. Bloody hell.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Despite what the School of TVtropes Internet Uniqueness may say, calling something "strawmanning" does not immediately entitle you to ignore what it says and act smug. You have absolutely kept going in the wrong direction in this thread.

My only mistake was using technology as an analogy, which you then blew out of proportion by claiming that I was saying that elven magic was technology, which it isn't.

This is the wrong thread for technology and magic. This is the thread for the Elven Stamp of Approval. Stop bringing up your own aweshum ideal magic system. Stop.

[size=23]Well excuse me for discussing ways wood could be enchanted in a thread about enchanted wood.[/size]

An analogy for what?? "This has the stamp of approval on it. It would not be possible without advanced CNC devices which machine the stamps we use on it. Technology is related! Help I can't feel my arm again"

THAT IS NOTHING LIKE WHAT I SAID.
Neonivek was explaining why it wouldn't be magic, I was providing the example of technology to back that up, it got worse from there.
Would it kill you to read what I actually said?

I'm sorry, silly me thinking that a thread entitled "Magic/Enchanted Wood" might cover wood that was enchanted to be better as a weapon or something.

That is pretty damn silly. Silly me, reading the title and completely ignoring the content of the first post to further my bizarre, twisted views of what magic should be in the wrong thread once again. Hey, look, this other thread is called 'Vector based font'! That means font will have magnitude and direction? Font shouldn't be able to rotate! Why read the first post to find out what the suggester meant when the meaning is perfectly clear from the three-word title alone? It can be whatever I want it to be!

I did read the first post.

...I think this can be solved simply by introducing magic, enchanted, or whatever-fancy-whatchamacallit-worked wood...

Indicates that the wood would be enchanted. I merely thought that elves would enchant it to be different, instead of enchanting it for S&G.

The magic discussion stemmed from someone posting a webcomic link.

Yup, the word "magic" was not at all mentioned in the title and seven times in the OP, plus in my post (#2) and the two after it, leaving one post which didn't mention magic before the webcomic link...

Then one mysterious person said "Some of the Threetoe's stories mentioned that elves armed themselves with weapons made of "hardened" wood. I believe it's the same as "enchantment" discussed here, except elves don't think it to be magical. Well, they most likely don't think their tree-shaping to be magic either.". Then you quoted a law (oh boy, laws!) and that started this trainwreck. Trainwreck as in "derail". Stop.

Well sorry. I'd like to note that even this reasoning doesn't claim that "magic wood could be better than nonenchanted wood for various purposes" is a derail.

Oh come on. Where else could this conversation go but to discuss elven magic? Otherwise it boils down to +1'ing your post, or (if you considered it ontopic enough) arguing about how they do it and how long. Bloody hell.

Agreed. Seriously, who makes a topic about elven-enchanted wood and doesn't expect people to talk about the properties of elven-enchanted wood?

[Neonivek]

Oh come on. Where else could this conversation go but to discuss elven magic? Otherwise it boils down to +1'ing your post, or (if you considered it ontopic enough) arguing about how they do it and how long. Bloody hell.

Because we have chosen to isolate it to just wood.

[BronzeAge]

I skipped the argument. Can we all agree that elves telling a tree to be shaped like a chair, and hiring elvis to grow a tree into a barrel is a good idea?

I personally like my spelling error better.

[Neonivek]

I skipped the argument. Can we all agree that elves telling a tree to be shaped like a chair, and hiring elvis to grow a tree into a barrel is a good idea?

I personally like my spelling error better.

I don't know, a certain aspect of that is rather silly to me. Shaping a whole tree into a barrel then killing the treee?

[GreatWyrmGold]

Oh come on. Where else could this conversation go but to discuss elven magic? Otherwise it boils down to +1'ing your post, or (if you considered it ontopic enough) arguing about how they do it and how long. Bloody hell.

Because we have chosen to isolate it to just wood.

Oh? as it happens, I never brought metal or stone into this.

I skipped the argument. Can we all agree that elves telling a tree to be shaped like a chair, and hiring elvis to grow a tree into a barrel is a good idea?
I personally like my spelling error better.

I don't know, a certain aspect of that is rather silly to me. Shaping a whole tree into a barrel then killing the treee?

Agreeing with Neonivek here, especially the "killing the tree" bit. Maybe there's some advanced magic that lets them grow some objects from trees, but "complex" or large objects and cheap production would both require extracting wood magically and then shaping it mundanely.

[BronzeAge]

I skipped the argument. Can we all agree that elves telling a tree to be shaped like a chair, and hiring elvis to grow a tree into a barrel is a good idea?
I personally like my spelling error better.

I don't know, a certain aspect of that is rather silly to me. Shaping a whole tree into a barrel then killing the treee?

Agreeing with Neonivek here, especially the "killing the tree" bit. Maybe there's some advanced magic that lets them grow some objects from trees, but "complex" or large objects and cheap production would both require extracting wood magically and then shaping it mundanely.

Killing the tree was never mentioned, as is unnecessary in both reality and fantasy. The OP also said that it isn't cheap or fast, you have the option of either taking time to extract it or just going to war with the elves.
 Define complex.

[GreatWyrmGold]

I skipped the argument. Can we all agree that elves telling a tree to be shaped like a chair, and hiring elvis to grow a tree into a barrel is a good idea?
I personally like my spelling error better.

I don't know, a certain aspect of that is rather silly to me. Shaping a whole tree into a barrel then killing the treee?

Agreeing with Neonivek here, especially the "killing the tree" bit. Maybe there's some advanced magic that lets them grow some objects from trees, but "complex" or large objects and cheap production would both require extracting wood magically and then shaping it mundanely.

Killing the tree was never mentioned, as is unnecessary in both reality and fantasy.

If your method of making barrels involves making trees shaped like barrels...Uprooting trees and then hacking off the roots isn't healthy.

The OP also said that it isn't cheap or fast, you have the option of either taking time to extract it or just going to war with the elves.

...So?

Define complex.

Items with multiple parts, or thin parts, or carefully-shaped parts, or...well, pretty much anything that requires precision. And probably some other stuff.

[KrEstoF]

lol, guys. I'd still want to call it "magic" wood or something along those lines. Maybe the elves know precisely how shaping/extracting the wood works, maybe it really is just magic they don't fully understand. I don't care! But the dwarves, they sure as hell don't know how it works so they'll call it magic.

Also, goomba, the idea to strengthen the wood, making it extraordinary, seems to be fair game to add on to this subject, and I, for one, approve of its discussion. That should have already been clear. 


One more thing. Aside from calling it Magic or Enchanted, perhaps it could also be referred to as Blessed or Spirit ... well, maybe moreso for when elves refer to it.....

[Neonivek]

The issue is that when you call it Magic Wood then the wood is "magical"

As in it either contains magic or can be used for magic. If it is ordinary wood obtained magically... then it is just wood.

Though I do agree with a tag that tells a Elf if they should care about the wood or not.

[KrEstoF]

The issue is that when you call it Magic Wood then the wood is "magical"

As in it either contains magic or can be used for magic. If it is ordinary wood obtained magically... then it is just wood.

Though I do agree with a tag that tells a Elf if they should care about the wood or not.

Ok, so how about "instant rice". Is it eaten instantly, only exists for an instant, or literally speaking, does the finished product have any quality that pertains to an instant? No, but it's called instant rice because it is made very quickly compared to normal rice.

Well, that's the only example I can think of, but I think all this talk is just silly word games and semantics. Look... if we were to try to be a bit more logical about this, we'd come to the conclusion that somehow, elves (and most likely other races for that matter) can tell the difference between normal wood and this "magic" wood. Maybe the wood really is stronger, maybe there just appear to be runes all over it created by the grain, I don't know! But the point is, obviously it is possible to tell the difference between these two types of woods, so it is not the same thing as taking a chunk of wood with identical properties and just labeling it magical. Otherwise that would just be pure shenanigans and the woods really would be the exact same things. Well, in terms of programming and game design maybe it is that way, but in the world of dwarf fortress, I doubt it.

So how about we drop the whole pointless discussion? Maybe come up with some alternate things we could call it then if you're so concerned.

[Neonivek]

I think all this talk is just silly word games and semantics

No, it is about communicating to the player in the best possible way. What is the best way to communicate that wood was obtained magically without giving the player a false expectation that it is magical?

I don't think calling it magic wood does that.

So how about we drop the whole pointless discussion?

That is the point of the conversation. It took a while to get back on track (because I got confused) but we are back onto what this is about. What should magically obtained wood be called if it is called anything?

[nanomage]

So how about we drop the whole pointless discussion?

That is the point of the conversation. It took a while to get back on track (because I got confused) but we are back onto what this is about. What should magically obtained wood be called if it is called anything?

I think it should not have any distinct adjective. Maybe objects of it should have something about its nature in description and be highlighted a bit in trade and stock screens, once those things get tracked enough.

The reasoning here is that material is just material however it is obtained. Trying to distinguish elf-made wood from cut wood would be like telling apart charcoal-made steel and coke-made steel. That seems not right while they are the same material and also, once you start you can't finish and soon you'll have (elf-made wood)-charcoal-made-steel and so on.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Also, goomba, the idea to strengthen the wood, making it extraordinary, seems to be fair game to add on to this subject, and I, for one, approve of its discussion. That should have already been clear. 

Thanks.

One more thing. Aside from calling it Magic or Enchanted, perhaps it could also be referred to as Blessed or Spirit ... well, maybe moreso for when elves refer to it.....

Those world have different implications.
Magic/Enchanted: Imbued with some sort of (presumably mortal) magic.
Blessed: Holy, possibly enchanted by a god.
Spirit: Implies connection with (and possibly habitation by) spirits.

I think all this talk is just silly word games and semantics

No, it is about communicating to the player in the best possible way. What is the best way to communicate that wood was obtained magically without giving the player a false expectation that it is magical?
I don't think calling it magic wood does that.

_{Part of why I suggested wood ^be magical...}

So how about we drop the whole pointless discussion?

That is the point of the conversation. It took a while to get back on track (because I got confused) but we are back onto what this is about. What should magically obtained wood be called if it is called anything?

Elf-approved? Elven? Magic, if it's actually enchanted? Blessed, if it has the blessing of elven gods?

I think it should not have any distinct adjective. Maybe objects of it should have something about its nature in description and be highlighted a bit in trade and stock screens, once those things get tracked enough.

The reasoning here is that material is just material however it is obtained. Trying to distinguish elf-made wood from cut wood would be like telling apart charcoal-made steel and coke-made steel. That seems not right while they are the same material and also, once you start you can't finish and soon you'll have (elf-made wood)-charcoal-made-steel and so on.

There is, however, a practical difference between elf-made wood and cut wood: You can trade one to elves. _{Also another argument for actual enchantments...}

[Scoops Novel]

I am glad a webcomic was linked. Order of the stick ho!