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[Furtuka]

What questions?

Did you READ Othello?

Yes I did. I referring to when my English class read it last year we were told that there was some sort of anti racism message in how the characters who disliked Othello treated him, and how at one point Iago admits early on that his reason's for hating Othello aren't really all that well thought out, but still does so anyways.

[Neonivek]

I take it to be more that Shakespeare is a good writer.

It is more what it takes for him to finally kill his wife.

[ChairmanPoo]

Shylock did have some sympathethic moments. I suspect his [Shakespeare's] "tollerance"'s limit was "jews were alright - as long as they convert"

(Edited for some clarification)

[fqllve]

Ehhh I am not convinced yet. Even Shakespeare often described a person's personality trait as essentially "being a Jew"

Except that Shylock is a way more sympathetic character than Fagin, and Shylock really isn't a very sympathetic character at all.

I cannot think of a single redeeming quality or moment for Fagin, so I'm not sure what would convince you. Also, antisemitism is generally regarded as racism against Jews, there's no active or passive distinction anyway, that's your own definition.

[Furtuka]

I take it to be more that Shakespeare is a good writer.

It is more what it takes for him to finally kill his wife.

I am sorry, but I have no idea what you just said here.

[Neonivek]

I take it to be more that Shakespeare is a good writer.

It is more what it takes for him to finally kill his wife.

I am sorry, but I have no idea what you just said here.

Shakespeare is too good a writer to ever let racism dictate a story. Mind you the less antiracist sentiment has more to do with how Othello is manipulated into killing his wife.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Shylock did have some sympathethic moments. I suspect his "tollerance"'s limit was "jews were alright - as long as they convert"

Shylock's whole thing is sympathetic. Hell, Shylock is in the right. Even if he's so rich the ducats wouldn't mean much, he's still lawfully owed them. His worst trait is that he's vengeful, and given the society he lived in, anyone would be vengeful.

[fqllve]

It's sympathetic to modern audiences, but to an audience of the period Shylock's usury and excessive request of credit would have been seen as an apt exaggeration of Jews. Plus there's the whole matter of the end...

[Neonivek]

I feel so guilty... This is a serious discussion but all I can think of is: Dang is Shylock a cool name

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I just find it a little unlikely that Shakespeare could write a character who would appear so sympathetic without intending it at least a little bit.

[Zrk2]

I just find it a little unlikely that Shakespeare could write a character who would appear so sympathetic without intending it at least a little bit.

Yes. Shakespeares' characters are what he wants them to be. I think the only way they could come of differently than he intended would be through time shifting the lense of the viewer.

[Scoops Novel]

Anyone factchecked about Charles Darwin? According to Wikipedia his mother wishing too keep him in the boot-blacking factory caused him to believe that the father should be the leader of the household and the mother stay at home, but I'm not sure how far that stuck.

[Owlbread]

Charles Darwin also had very interesting views on education that may not accord with some of you.

[ChairmanPoo]

Shylock's whole thing is sympathetic. Hell, Shylock is in the right. Even if he's so rich the ducats wouldn't mean much, he's still lawfully owed them. His worst trait is that he's vengeful, and given the society he lived in, anyone would be vengeful.

Yeah, but I have the vague impression that we're supposed to think that the good guys are in the right for hijacking a trial (BTW: wasn't a woman dressing up as a man heresy of the Joan-of-Arch burning sort back then?), setting up their foe's guilt, and tricking him into converting to christianity. And somehow see this as "forgiveness". Hence my suspicion  about that being the limit of Shakespeare's "tolerance".

[Zrk2]

We seem to have tangented away from this, but previously many were complaining about not unnecessarily colouring one's view of a book by reading up on the author, but I think that's backwards. Rather, one should read up on the author so one knows what biases are present and can account for them.