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[Scoops Novel]

I'd bet that the first ones to hear it thought bird song was a kind of music, and I'm not one to disagree. If we could rerail?

[itisnotlogical]

I'd bet that the first ones to hear it thought bird song was a kind of music, and I'm not one to disagree. If we could rerail?

A classroom of people my own age and in the same advanced English course argued that The Grapes of Wrath needed a happy no-loose-threads ending. I have not been happy with my generation for several years.

[Scoops Novel]

In approval or disapproval of my statement? I'll go with the former, but it is the internet.

[itisnotlogical]

In approval or disapproval of my statement? I'll go with the former, but it is the internet.

I was trying to re-rail the thread.

[Scoops Novel]

  YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[Scoops Novel]

I'll revoke that yeah, in exchange for being given an extra free Christmas pass.

[Scoops Novel]

Who was Alpha Dwarf?

[Truean]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-21/american-dream-fades-for-generation-y-professionals.html

[RedKing]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-21/american-dream-fades-for-generation-y-professionals.html

God, that's fucking depressing. The one sliver lining I see was that last paragraph:

“As it is, all of my possessions still fit in the back of my truck,” she says. “I can pack it in a couple hours, pick up the trailer and horses and move anywhere the gas tank will take me at the drop of a hat. What can the system take away from you when you have that kind of freedom?”

Maybe we'll see Gen Y be the first truly anti-materialistic generation in a long time, because they're realizing how much of a burden that plasma TV and iPhone and townhouse and whatever can be when you suddenly have to become nomadic again.

It's not just the legal and business sectors, either. Across a huge range of professional disciplines, there are simply far more people with advanced professional degrees than there are jobs to utilize them. I blame the "everyone should go to college" mentality that we've had for the last 50 years. Not only did it dilute the value of a Bachelor's Degree, but it produced a glut of people who mortgaged their future on their education (myself included), because that's what we've all been told since we were kids -- study hard, get a good education, and there will be a good job waiting on the other side.

I even thought I could avoid the vagaries of private sector fluctuation by choosing a career in government -- the government always needs diplomats and intelligence specialists, right?? And surely there can't be a glut of applicants in something that narrow? 

I genuinely fear for my kids' futures. I definitely don't have the level of success that my father does. And I'd be heartbroken if my kids had it even harder.


EDIT: Going back to something we were discussing earlier, I think this desire for some huge cataclysmic change or some kind of sweeping struggle (apocalypse, zombies, etc.) is because we (GenX and GenY) don't have anything really larger than ourselves to dive into. We want to be part of something big, really big...but it's just not out there. For our grandparents, there was The War, and then the Cold War. For our parents it was either The Company or some kind of narcisisstic navel gazing and yoga and granola. Either way, it was still something.

But there's no big war or existential threat, and the days of working 40 years at a company and drawing a safe pension and gold watch are long gone. Even the hippie communes have lost their luster.

I think that's one reason why both the Tea Party and the Occupy movement were lightning in a bottle there for a while. Both tapped into the frustrations, that latent feeling that we all have that something is just seriously not right, and the desire to be part of something larger.

Honestly, if ever we needed a crash space settlement program it's now. How many tens, hundreds of thousands would volunteer to go settle the Moon/Mars/space station/whatever -- partly because it's a chance to do something truly great and groundbreaking and of benefit to the future of mankind, and partly because it beats the fuck out of working retail when you have a college degree?

[Frumple]

I blame the "everyone should go to college" mentality that we've had for the last 50 years. Not only did it dilute the value of a Bachelor's Degree, but it produced a glut of people who mortgaged their future on their education (myself included), because that's what we've all been told since we were kids -- study hard, get a good education, and there will be a good job waiting on the other side.

Thing is, what they're telling us now (at least that I've been hearing) isn't necessarily that college == good job, it's just not!college == worse job (or chance for job versus (much) worse chance, anyway.). E: I want to say the common figure I keep hearing is that a high school grad makes, on average, something like 15-20% less than someone with just a bachelor's. Obviously doesn't detail all the variables involved and there's likely some spin on it, but that's what I keep hearing. Also that demographic (non-degree folks) apparently have drastically higher unemployment rates. So... yeah.

If it's bad for th'college educated, it's pretty much exponentially worse for those not (though there's wiggle room in there for technical training et al.). Experience, from everything I've seen, can offset that only somewhat. From what I hear, if you don't have a degree a lot of folks just won't even look at you.

As I understand it, those without a degree that went to work are being hit even worse than those that "mortgaged their future on their education". I'd posit it has much less to do with degrees becoming devalued (though that's definitely happened and is becoming worse) than it does with non-degree work just... going away. We just don't have as many of those jobs anymore. E2: At least on a population relative scale. Maybe more jobs on the net, but less per person, so the amount's gone up but the fraction of the population able to be employed by that has gone down. Note that that is a WAG and I don't actually have the numbers on it -- it's entirely likely we just have flat less -- but it'd make a sort of sense.

But that... whole thing. Is a multivariant problem like a who-knows-what. Degrees devaluing, jobs going away, efficiency getting better (lower worker demand), social norms changing, etc., so forth, so on. S'not just one thing to blame here, unfortunately. That'd make fixing so much easier

[RedKing]

Oh, you're absolutely right. I'm not saying the solution is "everyone stop going to college". Because, yeah....you're pretty much terminally fucked without at least an Associate's Degree in this country. But maybe...I dunno, tier that shit or something? Start making admissions far more geared towards ability and less towards who has the money or the connections. I know that's just replacing one kind of elitism with another, but I'm far more comfortable with intellectual elitism than I am plain old plutocracy.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Fighting the tide like that never goes well. We should nationalize secondary education and provide it to everyone like primary education is, because that's where we've gotten ourselves to anyway. The only question is how much money we're going to waste arguing over administrative stye.

[FearfulJesuit]

Does make me think about what I ought to do when I land at college next year. I'll probably be OK job-wise, since I will speak and read fluent Portuguese by the end of this year and pick up at least one other language at college and possibly two. I'd like to major in linguistics because I'm absolutely a whiz at it, but there's no point unless I go all the way to the doctorate and get tenure, which would be nice, but a very long process and if I can't find a job then, then what do I do?

Thank goodness I was a National Merit Scholar; I'll have barely any debt when I get out.

[Truean]

I genuinely fear for my kids' futures. I definitely don't have the level of success that my father does. And I'd be heartbroken if my kids had it even harder.

And I understand why. This is the source of my recommending people not go to law school, by the way.

Success has little if anything to do with an expensive college degree (having one or not), and I know several people's heads just explode every time I say that. It's return on investment and security of that investment. College doesn't necessarily have that anymore.

Of the kids that I know. I recommend they take up a trade, and I'm dead serious.

So long as we have cars, we will need mechanics. You can work for someone at a garage, or if you're able, for yourself on the side.... Even good hairdressers make respectable enough money.

Plumbers, dude, when the pipes stop, that's a freaking problem that demands attention. Same with electric.  They can't outsource that stuff either.

These are not "fun" jobs that people necessarily want. Mechanics get greasy as hell. Plumbers deal with everything you send down the drain. Electricians crawl around torn apart walls and risk shock. Not everybody can do it; not everybody wants to do it. Job security anyone?

[rant]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Hell, even most of the law stuff I do is only there because nobody really wants to do it and the pay sucks. Public defender/appointed counsel working environment includes knowing I can't take my briefcase into a cell with a person accused of a felony, because they could get it away from me and use it as a damn weapon. This is the same reason I can't hand them papers with staples and I have to make sure I get any pen they use back....

[rant]

I recommend working for the oil companies, in any capacity you can. I hear several recent high school grads in Texas have decided to completely nix college and go straight to work on rigs. Good on them. They won't have debt and will have paychecks. Awesome. One of them very aptly put it, "Don't have to study for years; get paid right away. Sure it's less than college boys but I got not loans." Yup, pretty much....

I can't really argue with him. My money will go straight to the IRS, then to the student loan people. I will fling as much money at them as humanly possible to get out from under them. Most of if not nearly all of my possessions and time are related to work, which has occasionally produced threats of bodily harm from certain clients. I would so prefer that lovey corporate accounting job. O, you're bored in a cubicle? Dear God, I would love that.... I would happily be a landsman for an oil company (checking deeds to properties before they buy the mineral rights), etc.

[RedKing]

So it has come to this then. We should abandon the quest for knowledge and culture and enlightenment in favor of the quest for the dollar, because our society is geared such that knowledge don't pay the fucking bills.

I mean...I hear what you're saying, Truean, and I know it makes rational, pragmatic sense. But Christ in a handbasket, that's depressing.

Also, relevant:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)