Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

This may be getting fairly off-topic, so it may be a good idea to move it to another thread.

http://www.cracked.com/article_21043_5-terrible-things-i-learned-as-corporate-whistleblower.html

...I'm somewhat surprised there isn't any activist groups akin to Anonymous trying to draw this into the open.  You would think it would attract them like flies.  Granted, they would probably get arrested, but I don't think that's stopped them before.

I also wonder what would occur if it were possible to get several whistleblowers acting in one class-action suit.  Probably would have the 'Army of Lawyers' trope appear in reality.

[Truean]

Putting aside obvious issues of sexism, used to be you could raise a family of a spouse and 2.5 kids from ONE breadwinner. Now BOTH parents work, nobody's raising the kids and if we can afford anything, it's only just barely. Anybody who runs their "uphill, in the snow both way" stories about how it was worse before is denying a basic mathematical principle:

1+1=2

Twice as many people working should mean you're twice as well off.... Nope.

[SalmonGod]

Yeah, my parents like to bring up the stuff they had to do when they had me, and were still in college.  My mom dropped out and supported the family by working at McDonald's, while my dad finished school.  Yeah, they lived in a tiny shack and barely made it.  But the thing is... it was actually goddamn possible for them to do that.  It wouldn't be possible today.  At all.  No amount of meager living strategy would make it work.  There's no other way to work with that comparison.  Plus, most of their friends at the time weren't having to work, or a very demanding job if they did, so they got tons of help.  I spent lots of time with babysitters.  Today everyone we know is drowning, and getting any time out of anyone to watch our kids just to see a movie is rare.  Nobody has time.  In 10 years, we've had two full nights without them.  And one of those times was to fly out to an unexpected funeral when a friend committed suicide.

[freeformschooler]

Yeah, my parents like to bring up the stuff they had to do when they had me, and were still in college.  My mom dropped out and supported the family by working at McDonald's, while my dad finished school.  Yeah, they lived in a tiny shack and barely made it.  But the thing is... it was actually goddamn possible for them to do that.  It wouldn't be possible today.  At all.  No amount of meager living strategy would make it work.

Now this may not have applied to your mom (gen X was a weird transition time), but keep in mind there used to be a "secondary economy" of friends and family that is today replaced with vast quantities of money. Need someone to take care of the kids? Ask your aunt. Brother Bobby's car broke down? That's okay, you have parts, the know-how and the car can actually be fixed because there aren't microprocessors and a million other do-not-touches inside.

Nowadays, this secondary economy has been enveloped by the primary (cash/credit) economy, and no one can afford to take care of kids, fix their car, hold down a house and everything else because that's crazy and few people have ever pulled it off. Humans aren't meant to be truly self-sufficient, but we're sold the idea that we can be if only we buy this extra thing that will hopefully make up for our lost support systems.

I try to know all my neighbors and keep up with them so that we can lend each other power drills and have someone over for backyard grills. It's still not quite enough.

[wierd]

I call that system the "Trading favors" system.

"Your computer is totally messed up? Sure, I can take care of that; could you mow my lawn that weekend so I have the time? You can? Awesome, let's do this."

Etc.

[SalmonGod]

Yeah, my parents like to bring up the stuff they had to do when they had me, and were still in college.  My mom dropped out and supported the family by working at McDonald's, while my dad finished school.  Yeah, they lived in a tiny shack and barely made it.  But the thing is... it was actually goddamn possible for them to do that.  It wouldn't be possible today.  At all.  No amount of meager living strategy would make it work.

Now this may not have applied to your mom (gen X was a weird transition time), but keep in mind there used to be a "secondary economy" of friends and family that is today replaced with vast quantities of money. Need someone to take care of the kids? Ask your aunt. Brother Bobby's car broke down? That's okay, you have parts, the know-how and the car can actually be fixed because there aren't microprocessors and a million other do-not-touches inside.

Nowadays, this secondary economy has been enveloped by the primary (cash/credit) economy, and no one can afford to take care of kids, fix their car, hold down a house and everything else because that's crazy and few people have ever pulled it off. Humans aren't meant to be truly self-sufficient, but we're sold the idea that we can be if only we buy this extra thing that will hopefully make up for our lost support systems.

I try to know all my neighbors and keep up with them so that we can lend each other power drills and have someone over for backyard grills. It's still not quite enough.

Yeah, that was basically my point.  My parents relied heavily on that kind of mutual aid when they were younger, and were doing well financially by the time they had moved away from it.  My generation doesn't have that much.  Too much fear culture and busyness and distraction.

[Truean]

It's called barter and we're going back to it cause nobody will pay for anything. Sad.

[Ghills]

Capitalism 101 time:

When skilled workers won't take the job, and trained workers switch jobs for a wage increase, wages are too low. RAISE THEM.

AFAIK, EU companies tend to pay lower wages but invest in their employees more. In the US, that would definitely result in lower-quality or unskilled workers joining, who would then switch to other jobs once they were trained.

As others have pointed out, there is absolutely no company loyalty in the US.  Some people might be loyal to their specific manager. 

No one is willing to pass up an immediate raise for vague talk about workplace culture.  Even a contract guaranteeing employment might not be enough.  On the lower end of the job market, there's little give in wages because people need to make enough to eat.  At $17-$20 an hour there's more consideration of benefits and workplace culture. Until that point, nobody cares. They're trying to move out of the homeless shelter.

[Ghills]

Yeah, my parents like to bring up the stuff they had to do when they had me, and were still in college.  My mom dropped out and supported the family by working at McDonald's, while my dad finished school.  Yeah, they lived in a tiny shack and barely made it.  But the thing is... it was actually goddamn possible for them to do that.  It wouldn't be possible today.  At all.  No amount of meager living strategy would make it work.

Now this may not have applied to your mom (gen X was a weird transition time), but keep in mind there used to be a "secondary economy" of friends and family that is today replaced with vast quantities of money. Need someone to take care of the kids? Ask your aunt. Brother Bobby's car broke down? That's okay, you have parts, the know-how and the car can actually be fixed because there aren't microprocessors and a million other do-not-touches inside.

Nowadays, this secondary economy has been enveloped by the primary (cash/credit) economy, and no one can afford to take care of kids, fix their car, hold down a house and everything else because that's crazy and few people have ever pulled it off. Humans aren't meant to be truly self-sufficient, but we're sold the idea that we can be if only we buy this extra thing that will hopefully make up for our lost support systems.

I try to know all my neighbors and keep up with them so that we can lend each other power drills and have someone over for backyard grills. It's still not quite enough.

Yeah, that was basically my point.  My parents relied heavily on that kind of mutual aid when they were younger, and were doing well financially by the time they had moved away from it.  My generation doesn't have that much.  Too much fear culture and busyness and distraction.

I think moving away from extended family and not having a religious affiliation plays a role.

Extended family and fellow church-goers are the traditional marketplace for trading favors and pulling together in a crisis.  Foregoing that makes people more vulnerable.  There's good reasons to do it, but when large numbers of people do it the secondary economy falls apart.

[Bohandas]

Although there are plenty of my friends who are totally motivated and have managed to get that 9-5 job, 2.5 children, loving wife/husband, two story house with picket fence.

Less and less people are seeing this as the objective of life as the generations pass. It was big for the Greatest and Silent generations, and the Baby Boomers were the product of it, so many of them wanted to replicate it. That so many failed lead to much of X rejecting it, and Y further rejecting it. The trend will probably continue with Z.

I certainly want none of those things. I'd be happy with a job in the field I'm interested in, no children, being single, and living in an apartment. I'm not the only one, either.

Still rejecting it here. I see what it did to my grandparents. When my grandma's kids and grandkids die, nobody will remember her name. When she's gone from her office job, people will be sad for a little while, but there's nothing she's doing that isn't completely replaceable. In eighty years, my grandma will pretty much never have existed.

That'll happen to most people, even if they are influential. How many former presidents can you name off the top of your head? What about Influential businessmen from before you were born*? Popes? Roman emperors? Egyptian pharaohs?


*and of those, hpw many actually did the things that they were famous for? I know Edison certainly didn't.

[Bohandas]

1986 BTW. I was alive during the cold war but it has as little relevance to my life as the War of the Roses or the Siege of Troy.

EDIT:
On a related note, hopefully the corrupt business thing will start to improve as more people start to enter politics who did not grow up with the malevolent specter of Joe McCarthy and his successors looming over the land and frightening people with ghost stories about the communist bogeyman and accusing anyone who questioned capitalism in any way of being a traitor.

[SalmonGod]

UGH.  BABY BOOMERS.

I have a 67 yr old co-worker.  She's... difficult.  But today she really forced me to bite my tongue.  (the following is heavily paraphrased, mostly to cut down on her barely coherent rambling conversational form)

I don't remember what triggered it, but she made a very generalized comment (I don't think it was directed at anyone present) about work ethic deteriorating with each younger generation.

So I made the very generalized defense "Well, that's because we've seen how our parents and grandparent's lives ended up, and we don't want that..."

She seemed to take offense, so I went on "I didn't mean that personally in any way.  I'm just saying that everyone my own age and younger knows older people whose entire lives have been about nothing but work, and it never payed off the way they thought it would and just amounted to bitterness and regret.  Why would we follow that example?"

Her retort... "Well that's because we wanted to make a better future for our children and grandchildren.  That's why you have all these nice electronics and stuff.  And the way you live your lives will shape the future of generations after you, too"

At that point, all I could do was stare blankly and nod while thinking "It's ok.  It's ok.  She's going to be dead soon."

Right... my generation's work ethic is so bad, because we never realized that yours was for the sake of building us a better future, which is something we don't worry about at all.  Tell me again about your most recent expensive luxury vacation that I never expect to experience the likes of, and then how you can't afford to retire... and maybe throw in one of those comments about kids these days were never taught to live within their means... and then make another passive aggressive comment about how someone else should take the stuff you don't want to do off your desk, because you never believe that anyone else is working.

You know... we've put all this focus on slowing and reversing the aging process.  But has anyone ever asked if there's a way to speed it up?

[Reelya]

It doesn't make sense either. Wages are down. Middle class jobs are disappearing. If work ethic was really to blame then there would be a shortage of good people and wages for important jobs would be through the roof.

My ex-girlfriend's dad is about that age and we had a big chat about how him and his wife blame video games for the surge in youth violence. Apart from the fact that youth violence is actually falling, and certainly not correlated with rising game violence (i'd doubt if it's even demographically linked within your populations), it's just perceptions and trying to fit that with whatever they have at hand.

[FearfulJesuit]

You know... we've put all this focus on slowing and reversing the aging process.  But has anyone ever asked if there's a way to speed it up?

She might be pining for the good old days when her doctor smoked Camels because they were good for your circulation.

[Reelya]

Maybe for the good old days when you just didn't hear about all the bad things that occur because the media was centralized and heavily filtered.