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[LordSlowpoke]

Well, my first post in this subforum. Be gentle, and all that.

I've been playing LCS for a while now - only managed to liberalize the country once through abuse of the Guardian and an unholy mound of materials obtained via hacking, but one thing seems to have been bothering me. From L+ to C+, the only way you can be attacked are raids, and raids - at least police and firemen, I had no contact with the CCS yet - are direct action-reaction deals, with you doing something and getting something done to you in return. Considering the Conservative stance on privacy, human rights and free speech, there should be a rather large agency dedicated to making sure there are no dissidents about? After all, the CIA exists ingame - they have a location, they're sometimes mentioned in the papers as spying on the average citizen, it doesn't seem to be a reason why the founder/other liberals wouldn't be subject to this in some way. I haven't a clue how this would be implemented, however.

[Servant Corps]

The CIA can raid the LCS headquaters but only if you anger them (such as, say, breaking into their headquarters and publishing confidential information). I also think that the latest version also has the CIA covertly sponsoring the CCS, and you can stop said covert sponsorship by raiding their headquaters and finding the CCS List.

[BoxOfAids]

In my experience, Hacking a lot may also cause CIA raids. If it wasn't the hacking, then I don't know what it was, since they raided my hacker safehouse only, and I had never set foot inside the CIA HQ.

And yeah, new version has CCS backer list acquirable via CIA supercomputer.

[KA101]

Bearing in mind that high-level Hacking can target the CIA & military networks...yeah, that seems like a good way to anger the CIA.  Frankly they weren't that bad a raid in the previous version as they don't wear armor--any weapon will penetrate, and I didn't have problems with them Dodging.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Though the CIA does have a special raid ability: They can cut your power even if you have a generator.

[KA101]

Though the CIA does have a special raid ability: They can cut your power even if you have a generator.

Well...it, uh, didn't seem terribly effective that one time they raided me.  (Granted, this was before I'd learned to use the map during raids.)

In any event, since one typically only needs to take out two enemy squads before the raid breaks and flees, I'd still say that they're not a group I'd fear.  If it wasn't for the Treason charges angering the Government (read: SWAT/military, and Murder charges for defending against those raids, cue Heat spiral) I'd bait the CIA for the possibility of making their Agents...comfortable enough to talk about why they had such bad feelings, next on this Special Edition of the Dr. Crossbreeze Show.

(IOW: kidnap/convert raiding Agents & have them help do a Cable News takeover.  My LCS' ranking psychologist is one "Synaptic Crossbreeze".)

[Elodie Hiras]

AFAIK, hacking doesn't causes the CIA to raid you. I've had a hacker hack everything for a few years straight, but no CIA raids. But... You can get secret documents from the military base, or via hacking, and publishing them, well, THAT angers the CIA...

And I agree, the CIA raids are a joke. Whom attacks a heavily guarded Liberal safehouse dressed in tuxedos and expects to win? Seriously, the CIA should come to a safe house dressed in Heavy Body Armor...

[KA101]

I think they're supposed to be MiBs (possibly WiBs too if Women's Rights is Liberalized), and that's fine until the player and/or the Liberals don't panic at the power going off.  Might be more dramatic if the Escape/Engage started with the LCS already engaged or about-to-be engaged (say, with one or two CIA groups already in the room) to represent the CIA coming in through the vents/skylight/whatever.

Simply giving the CIA all Heavy armor, though in keeping with the IntHQ having it lootable, makes them over-resilient IMO.  I've seen Heavy take two M16 bursts (figure Rifle 5-8 or so--it's been a while) and still be able to shoot back--which strongly encourages the LCS to have 12-18 Rifleliberals, minimum, on-site.  If the CIA is supposed to be the scariest opponent, that'd do the job on its own.

[Soadreqm]

I think the CIA agents look better in black suits.

If you want them to have more firepower, I think it'd be more thematically appropriate to have them backed by the army. Instead of dressing the agents in body armour, have some of the raiding squads be navy SEALs instead. Generally, I think the CIA should be made sneakier rather than more threatening in combat. Doing things like poisoning or abducting your liberals if you annoy them.

[KA101]

Seconded.  Involving the SEAL team seems legally questionable, since the CIA isn't supposed to be raiding anyone, but having them capture & interrogate Liberals seems worthwhile.

Frankly, they ought to do that rather than kill surrendering Liberals.  They talk, CIA finds your safehouses and blows their Secrecy, plants Conservative sleepers so site raids go directly to Conservative Response On-Site, etc.  This could of course be forestalled by raiding the IntHQ and Liberating the prisoners from the interrogation facility, or countered by finding the LCS Sleeper List (supercomputer, empty interrogation facility, or sleeper Agent come to mind).

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Simply giving the CIA all Heavy armor, though in keeping with the IntHQ having it lootable, makes them over-resilient IMO.  I've seen Heavy take two M16 bursts (figure Rifle 5-8 or so--it's been a while) and still be able to shoot back--which strongly encourages the LCS to have 12-18 Rifleliberals, minimum, on-site.  If the CIA is supposed to be the scariest opponent, that'd do the job on its own.

You should keep in mind that the wearer of the Heavy Body Armor is also important. Usually, the only ones wearing it are CCS Bosses, Hardened Mercenaries, and your most elite combat Liberals. Even without armor, all three of those are tough as hell. I remember one of my founders getting shot about twenty times and losing two limbs, but surviving.

[KA101]

So noted.  Are the Hardened Mercenaries part of Corporate raids?  Haven't had one of those yet.  Secrecy FTW.

That said, how often is it that you fight 4-6 or so Hardened [whatevers] at one time?  I'd definitely want support fire in that circumstance, and even then there'd be casualties for both sides.  According to the wiki, Agents have higher base Health than the CCS Boss, and they typically have some capability to Dodge, which isn't affected by armor (or if it is, the XMLs don't mention it).

http://lcs.wikidot.com/professions , FWIW.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Sometimes. I've seen Hardened Mercenaries in Corporate raids and CCS raids. The most I've ever seen at once is three, and that was a total party kill. They're so tough they can still fight you if they get caught in safehouse traps.

I wouldn't trust the wiki, it is critically out of date.

[GreatWyrmGold]

On the subject of making CIA raids scarier...well, someone compared them to the urban-legendary Men in Black, which made me think of the movie of the same name. Maybe the CIA shows up with powerful weapons and other neat gadgets that make them formidable, but which make defeating them lucrative?

[Soadreqm]

Aliens wouldn't really fit the theme of LCS, but I guess clandestine government research projects being well ahead of civilian science is a wider trope than that. Not sure if it's a good idea balance-wise, though. You can make the LCS fairly unstoppable by buying some Kalashnikovs from the crack house and shooting unarmed civilians until your squad has a few points of skill in them. If they had plasma rifles and powered armour, it just wouldn't be fair anymore.