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[MetalSlimeHunt]

Why would you want to kill therapists? [/intentionallyignorant]

[Urist_McDrowner]

So, if they where killing someone for revenge, would you stop them?

Yes, UNLESS, it was the government (I.E. legal monopoly on force), acting in a way that protects the rights and operating under the consent of the governed, executing the death penalty which isn't so much revenge, as future deterrent anyway.

[Scelly9]

Are you exempt from that? After all, you are killing people as societies revenge.

[Frumple]

*scratches head* Deterrent's been repeatedly proven not to work to any statistically significant degree -- the folks that'd do things that deterrent ostensibly works against by and large aren't effected by deterrent measures. We've known this for... decades, now, as far as I'm aware. That deterrents do anything is pretty rhetoric to a certain degree, but it's basically just flat out wrong.

Death penalty's either revenge or kinder than the torture of confinement (and in th'latter case, should be opt-in, really), dependin' on how you look at it. S'not really a third option, since it's more expensive, too.

[darklord92]

to be honest i'm surprised this has never been brought up yet, but what about self euthanisation? is it morally right for a person who feels they will die, slip into intense pain for a extended period of time( till death ), or to slowly degenerate mentally? Is it right for that person to want to protect themselves by passing away at their own hand, or to be assisted by a doctor in doing so legally? Personally if i were perdicted to slowly go insane ( parkenson etc ) would i really want my loved ones to slowly watch me fall apart? or leave them with a lasting memory of who i was and what i wanted to stay as, and not become a clueless near vegetable unable to make the bed without forgetting or not even know their names and faces ?

[Criptfeind]

It was brought up before in this thread, although it was pretty much ignored.

I mentioned that I favor legalization of suicide, doctor assisted or not. And it is disturbing to me that society forces people to take one specific action in such deeply personal circumstances.

[penguinofhonor]

Man, why did gamerlord have to leave? I think we had some real shit going.

Oh fine.

ARGHBLARGLH KILLKILLKILL

That good?

I think it's fine, man. Screw what everyone else says.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

It was brought up before in this thread, although it was pretty much ignored.

I mentioned that I favor legalization of suicide, doctor assisted or not. And it is disturbing to me that society forces people to take one specific action in such deeply personal circumstances.

Legalizing suicide for people not dying of incurable or practically incurable diseases presents a severe quandary. We know that most people who commit suicide and fail are glad to have failed, but it is a heavy restriction of personal liberty to try to tell someone they don't have the right to even die. We should let people do what they want, but can it be said that the suicidal "really" want to die if they change their mind after failing?

The hypothetical optimum path would be to give the suicidal a convincing but false suicide method, in order to give them the terror that provokes most who attempt it to change their mind without actually endangering them. We just don't really have a way to do that.

[Criptfeind]

I gota think that the idea that they are happy to have not died is a bit... Off maybe. Since if you say you are suicidal (which saying you are not happy about living certainly would count as) will get you institutionalized. Not to mention the people who are most likely to be happy with the decision, those with the most reason and most follow though, can not be asked.

In the end I don't think the huge restriction on what is possibly a valid path for some people is reasonable.

[DJ]

Killing is OK when it's critical to your high-priority goals and you can get away with it.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Succeeding or failing at suicide isn't necessarily related to your likelihood of wanting it regardless of failure. It mostly comes down to methodology.

Take poisoning, for example. It is fucking hard to actually fatally poison yourself. Humans are very resistant to toxic buildup, and if you don't know what you're doing you'll likely incapacitate yourself before you can do something deadly. This is why most suicides by poisoning fail miserably.

By contrast, most suicides by gunshot succeed. It is not easy to screw up shooting yourself in the head. Though it does happen on occasion. The story of Stalin's son comes to mind. Stalin hated him with a passion, and when he found out he tried to kill himself with a pistol and failed, his response was "The boy can't even shoot straight!". Just in case you weren't convinced Stalin was evil, there you go.

[Criptfeind]

That may be true, but it seems sorta like. It don't grok. I mean, just keep with me here for a second to see if you agree with what I am saying.

If you don't really want to die, it seems more likely to me that you would hesitate when killing yourself? That you would go with the less immediate and thus less fatal options?

Of course I don't have anything to back this up. Like at all. But I somehow doubt anyone does.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

If you don't really want to die, it seems more likely to me that you would hesitate when killing yourself?

I'm sure the feeling is completely genuine in the moment, but it is transient. Failure to kill yourself consistently eliminates the desire.

That you would go with the less immediate and thus less fatal options?

Believe it or not, but the deciding factor on this is usually gender. Men have a tendency to go for the really violent, direct options like gunshot or car crash. Women are more likely to go for subtle things like poisoning or starvation. This is why women attempt suicide more often than men, but more men die of suicide.

[Criptfeind]

I'm sure the feeling is completely genuine in the moment, but it is transient. Failure to kill yourself consistently eliminates the desire.

Does it? Are there any numbers here? How do you even gather that information since the aftermath of a failure could be said to pretty much amount to brainwashing.

[Helgoland]

By contrast, most suicides by gunshot succeed. It is not easy to screw up shooting yourself in the head. Though it does happen on occasion. The story of Stalin's son comes to mind. Stalin hated him with a passion, and when he found out he tried to kill himself with a pistol and failed, his response was "The boy can't even shoot straight!". Just in case you weren't convinced Stalin was evil, there you go.

The guy was cool. Had a fuckin' awesome mustache.

I'm sure the feeling is completely genuine in the moment, but it is transient. Failure to kill yourself consistently eliminates the desire.

Does it? Are there any numbers here? How do you even gather that information since the aftermath of a failure could be said to pretty much amount to brainwashing.

And that's a good thing - I'd argue that while everyone has a right to kill themselves, most who attemt to (excluding those suffering from a chronic/terminal disease) are in some way psychologically damaged and ought to be treated.
So: Mandatory treatment for suicidal people!