Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Random_Dragon]

I've been pondering something about shields and bucklers, namely the differences between them. The wiki states it quite simply, shields give a better armor level and coverage but take more material to make...IF you use adamantine, otherwise it costs the same number of bars.

I could've sworn there was another major difference, namely one that made it better to give bucklers to marksdwarves. Is there any particular reason to bother with bucklers, then?

[hermes]

I don't think so.  I mean, it's impossible to say "buckler" ten times in a row really quickly.  "Shield" is much easier though.  Shield +1

[Random_Dragon]

I don't think so.  I mean, it's impossible to say "buckler" ten times in a row really quickly.  "Shield" is much easier though.  Shield +1

Bucklerbucklerbuckleblechler-augh. You're right. ;-;

Maybe I should test and see if dwarves are less easily tonguetied.

[Urist Da Vinci]

...
I could've sworn there was another major difference, namely one that made it better to give bucklers to marksdwarves. Is there any particular reason to bother with bucklers, then?

No, there isn't a good reason to bother with bucklers. People tend to make up explanations when they don't understand what is going on. Even if you are concerned about weight, you could give wood shields instead of metal shields. The material of a shield doesn't make a difference to the ability to block.

[Random_Dragon]

...
I could've sworn there was another major difference, namely one that made it better to give bucklers to marksdwarves. Is there any particular reason to bother with bucklers, then?

No, there isn't a good reason to bother with bucklers. People tend to make up explanations when they don't understand what is going on. Even if you are concerned about weight, you could give wood shields instead of metal shields. The material of a shield doesn't make a difference to the ability to block.

Oh derp. I vaguely recall they at least did something useful in 23a I think. Now if I'd only known that BEFORE inundating my markdwarves in adamantine bucklers.

Wait, that's my game where I tested horribly broken cheating reactions anyway. >_>

[Sutremaine]

Even if you are concerned about weight, you could give wood shields instead of metal shields. The material of a shield doesn't make a difference to the ability to block.

Leather's light too, and you can specify it in uniforms* by using the colour option to make 'brown shield' part of the uniform.

*Well, nearly, but the only other brown shield material is a kind of wood anyway.

[Random_Dragon]

Even if you are concerned about weight, you could give wood shields instead of metal shields. The material of a shield doesn't make a difference to the ability to block.

Leather's light too, and you can specify it in uniforms* by using the colour option to make 'brown shield' part of the uniform.

*Well, nearly, but the only other brown shield material is a kind of wood anyway.

Or adamantine. I mean, if I'm going to start using adamantine, first priority is always the shield since they work so beautifully. Next on the priority list is helms, then breastplates, then greaves, then mail shirts, then finally gauntlet and boots if I can afford to.

[Ganthan]

When it comes to blocking attacks, all materials perform exactly the same for shields.  Adamantine is no better than leather or wood.  The only real difference material makes is the damage inflicted with a shield bash; denser material is better.  For melee troops (as opposed to marksdwarves behind fortifications), the best shields are copper or silver.  The drawback to this is that heavier shields slow dwarves down a little bit more.  With enough strong and skilled dwarves this is pretty much of no consequence.

You're better off not wasting your precious adamantine for super light shields instead of plentiful wood or leather.

[Sutremaine]

I prefer mail shirts as the priority armour for adamantine after helms. Fewer wafers, more coverage, and about as good (bad) against bolts and arrows.

Silver isn't a shield material except for moods and mods.

[javierpwn]

Shields have a higher chance to block 20% instead of 10% I think, besides that, not much of a difference, except weight

[Random_Dragon]

I prefer mail shirts as the priority armour for adamantine after helms. Fewer wafers, more coverage, and about as good (bad) against bolts and arrows.

Silver isn't a shield material except for moods and mods.

Hmm. Though I thought breastplates were slightly better against blunt and penetrating type attacks?

Also, is Gatham right about the fact that shield material doesn't affect the defensive value? That would annoy me infinitely if I found out I'm wasting my time making adamantine shields. >_>

[FrisianDude]

The few times I've got myself access to adamantine I tended to make weapons of it first. There's something immensly satisfying about an ugly ogre cleft in twain by a bearded midget with a green knife.

[VerdantSF]

Also, is Gatham right about the fact that shield material doesn't affect the defensive value? That would annoy me infinitely if I found out I'm wasting my time making adamantine shields. >_>

Sadly, yes.  Other than dealing with firebreathers, wood shields are just as good as any metal ones.

[Sutremaine]

Hmm. Though I thought breastplates were slightly better against blunt and penetrating type attacks?

Slightly. There's a topic here that examines the subject of bolts vs. armour in detail. There's a particularly important post here. Unfortunately off the top of my head I don't know where the posts are detailing the default bolt momentum, but it's way, way higher than the 70-75 that allows any armour material to either succeed or fail (anything that isn't iron or steel is right on either border though). The fix for that, plus a much shorter explanation and some calculations, is in the sig of the post linked above.

[Random_Dragon]

Hmm. Though I thought breastplates were slightly better against blunt and penetrating type attacks?

Slightly. There's a topic here that examines the subject of bolts vs. armour in detail. There's a particularly important post here. Unfortunately off the top of my head I don't know where the posts are detailing the default bolt momentum, but it's way, way higher than the 70-75 that allows any armour material to either succeed or fail (anything that isn't iron or steel is right on either border though). The fix for that, plus a much shorter explanation and some calculations, is in the sig of the post linked above.

As I've noticed, seems like the only time you can shrug off bolts is with adamantine versus adamantine.

Does seem like piercing melee weapons are less inclined to ignore armor though, so I would assume the slightly higher armor level would be of greater use in melee.